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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old July 11 2014, 03:35 AM   #16
Set Harth
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Re: Could the Hobus destruction of Romulus have been metaphorical?

TorontoTrekker wrote: View Post
I haven't watched the movie in a while, so I may be misremembering - but we only see Romulus destroyed with our own eyes through the flashback narrated by Nero.
The flashback is narrated by Spock(Nimoy), not Nero.

chrinFinity wrote:
What I'm getting at here is to determine if it is absolutely, positively, established in canon beyond any doubt or room for interpretation, that the planet Romulus was physically destroyed and exploded / burned up, etc
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Old July 11 2014, 06:41 AM   #17
Ithekro
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Re: Could the Hobus destruction of Romulus have been metaphorical?

Star Trek Online, which is suppose to be the Prime universe as it happens after Spock is taken to the Nu Universe, has the remains of Romulus. Not much left really. Lots of rocks, the largest pieces resembling maybe a 24th of the crust of the planet.

Romulus was destroyed.

That also fits in somewhat with the Q future from "All Good Things..." since Romulan space was taken over by the Klingons. Why would they be able to do so, unless of course Romulus was destroyed.

It also suggests that the supernova was subspace related and has a matter to energy conversion ability that made the supernova expand faster as it went as it gained energy from the matter it destroyed. Basically nonsense to correct total nonsense in the idea that a supernova could threaten the entire galaxy and destroy Romulus from several light years away.
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Old July 11 2014, 07:47 AM   #18
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Re: Could the Hobus destruction of Romulus have been metaphorical?

On hand, I wouldn't dismiss the idea which might be interesting. The flashback will likely (if not certainly) turn out to be "metaphorical" when a canonical work decides to contradict it as has happened a million times in the past. Star Trek has never been shy to contradict itself, so new writers are unlikely to resist making Romulus destruction a result of a diplomatic crisis or even resurrect it in the Prime universe.

On the other hand, effects from red matter certainly weren't the cause for destruction. Nero said "the one who allowed our planet to be destroyed". If you're delusional as he was, and you wanted to blame the Federation and Spock as much as he did, you would never sugercoat such sentence if you could say "Spock and the Federation destroyed Romulus". Now I am sure that wouldn't stop future writers either, but using that phrase makes it clear that there's no ambiguity in the way the film was intended.

You're left with little room for reinterpretation. At best, the events took much longer and Spock left out things. But if someone decide to explore it - and that could make a nice story - I am sure they will change a thing or two.
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Old July 11 2014, 03:04 PM   #19
The Wormhole
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Re: Could the Hobus destruction of Romulus have been metaphorical?

Ithekro wrote: View Post
That also fits in somewhat with the Q future from "All Good Things..." since Romulan space was taken over by the Klingons. Why would they be able to do so, unless of course Romulus was destroyed.
Actually, Romulus is still around in All Good Things. The reason they travel on the Pasteur to check out the anomaly is because the Klingons allow Federation ships to travel in what was Romulan territory to help with a plague outbreak on Romulus.
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Old July 11 2014, 03:55 PM   #20
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Re: Could the Hobus destruction of Romulus have been metaphorical?

TorontoTrekker wrote: View Post
It's much more likely that what happened was similar to what happened to Qo'nos in TUC - its environment was damaged or destroyed by a gamma-ray burst (GRB) from the supernova, rendering it uninhabitable and, for all intents and purposes, destroyed. A GRB is certainly powerful enough - one going off within a thousand light years of Earth would destroy us, if it happened to be pointing in our direction. (I'm not sure if GRBs cause actual physical destruction, though, of if they would just blow away our atmosphere.)

Though given the distances involved in interstellar space, it should have taken a few years for a GRB to reach Romulus, even if it was as close to Romulus as we are to Alpha Centauri - but accurate physics hasn't been a hallmark of the Abramsverse (Trek in general plays fast and loose with the laws of physics at times, but I happen to think that Abrams plays even faster and looser). It's not like in TUC, where Praxis was identified as "a Klingon moon" - but it was never explicitly stated whether or not it was a moon of Qo'nos (which it would pretty much have to be, for its explosion to have that effect on the planet), just in the same system, or somewhere within the Empire.
I think that Praxis is a pretty good example of a similar disaster that produced a superluminal shockwave, since I'd imagine that Excelsior was light years away from that particular explosion.
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Old July 11 2014, 04:23 PM   #21
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Re: Could the Hobus destruction of Romulus have been metaphorical?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
The reason they travel on the Pasteur to check out the anomaly is because the Klingons allow Federation ships to travel in what was Romulan territory to help with a plaque outbreak on Romulus.
Dental hygiene is serious business.
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Old July 11 2014, 04:32 PM   #22
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Re: Could the Hobus destruction of Romulus have been metaphorical?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
The reason they travel on the Pasteur to check out the anomaly is because the Klingons allow Federation ships to travel in what was Romulan territory to help with a plaque outbreak on Romulus.
Dental hygiene is serious business.
Romulan arrogance even applies to flossing.
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Old July 11 2014, 05:30 PM   #23
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Re: Could the Hobus destruction of Romulus have been metaphorical?

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
The reason they travel on the Pasteur to check out the anomaly is because the Klingons allow Federation ships to travel in what was Romulan territory to help with a plaque outbreak on Romulus.
Dental hygiene is serious business.
Romulan arrogance even applies to flossing.
Romulan ale is fluoridated.

Captain's log, stardate 47824.14159. We are on a mercy mission to what is left of Romulus. The people there have not been able to brush their teeth for two weeks. We are carrying a cargo of toothbrushes, toothpaste, floss, and several thousand kiloliters of extra strong mouthwash. We hope we are not too late before tooth decay starts setting in.

(Sorry, Wormhole, it was too easy.)
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Old July 11 2014, 06:20 PM   #24
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Re: Could the Hobus destruction of Romulus have been metaphorical?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Nero's backstory is that he was originally a decent working class stiff ...
Okay, then how would a "working class stiff" know that Spock could be intercepted at the Hobus supernova?

Because the Romulan government was always so transparent to it's people?

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Old July 11 2014, 08:20 PM   #25
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Re: Could the Hobus destruction of Romulus have been metaphorical?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Nero's backstory is that he was originally a decent working class stiff ...
Okay, then how would a "working class stiff" know that Spock could be intercepted at the Hobus supernova?

Because the Romulan government was always so transparent to it's people?

He's a working class stiff with a sub space radio.
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Old July 11 2014, 08:44 PM   #26
Ithekro
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Re: Could the Hobus destruction of Romulus have been metaphorical?

If I remember the comic, it was Nero who found the Hobus system was going to go nova and informed Romulus and Spock of the problem. I think it was Nero who took Spock to Vulcan. Nero made it back to Romulus to see it destroyed as the Hobus supernova happened sooner than expected, plus the Vulcan Science Academy refused to help. The comic suggests it was a mix of pressure from Ambassabor Picard and the Jellyfish's designer La'Forge, that got Spock the ship and Red Matter.

By then it was too late for Romulus, and Nero was starting to just shoot things (specifically Klignons), intercepted Spock early, but was delayed by the Enterprise-E, allowing Spock to complete his mission to stop the supernova just before Nero arrived to get revenge on Spock.
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Old July 12 2014, 03:03 AM   #27
The Wormhole
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Re: Could the Hobus destruction of Romulus have been metaphorical?

Franklin wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post

Dental hygiene is serious business.
Romulan arrogance even applies to flossing.
Romulan ale is fluoridated.

Captain's log, stardate 47824.14159. We are on a mercy mission to what is left of Romulus. The people there have not been able to brush their teeth for two weeks. We are carrying a cargo of toothbrushes, toothpaste, floss, and several thousand kiloliters of extra strong mouthwash. We hope we are not too late before tooth decay starts setting in.

(Sorry, Wormhole, it was too easy.)
Oh boy, that was an embarrassing mistake. I should know better than to write a post when I'm in a rush to get out of the house.
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Old July 12 2014, 08:16 PM   #28
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Re: Could the Hobus destruction of Romulus have been metaphorical?

Having a chunk of the planet's crust intact, held together by a force field normally used to deflect incoming fire from space--would amount to an asteroid with greek columns on it--visually a stunning concept.
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Old July 12 2014, 09:37 PM   #29
Set Harth
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Re: Could the Hobus destruction of Romulus have been metaphorical?

YellowSubmarine wrote:
The flashback will likely (if not certainly) turn out to be "metaphorical" when a canonical work decides to contradict it as has happened a million times in the past.
Likely, if not certainly? That seems a bit exaggerated, especially given that there don't seem to be any specific plans to continue with the Prime universe at this point.
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Old July 12 2014, 10:06 PM   #30
YellowSubmarine
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Re: Could the Hobus destruction of Romulus have been metaphorical?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Likely, if not certainly? That seems a bit exaggerated, especially given that there don't seem to be any specific plans to continue with the Prime universe at this point.
A major event such as the destruction of Romulus will certainly be revisited some time in the next 100 trillion years of human existence. I am willing to bet my gravestone on that.
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