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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old July 21 2014, 08:39 PM   #31
Timo
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Re: A question about holodecks.

Initial limitations of the holodeck, like Data throwing a stone against the wall
A limitation? More like the holodeck bending over backward to satisfy Data's need to demonstrate that the holodeck has a wall there.

To them it was an end to a means to give the Enterprise a much more advanced holo system
As far as the reactions of our heroes go, the only advancement seemed to be that one of the characters had spark. Realism of the milieu was already there in "The Big Goodbye" or, for all we know, in "Encounter at Farpoint" or back in Janeway's childhood when nothing was hotter than Flotter.

One wonders whether "Elementary, Dear Data" could have taken place without the Bynar upgrade. But it obviously was already built in to the original machinery and programming that characters like Cyrus Redblock could emerge now and then, given a suitable breakdown of safeties and censors.

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Old August 4 2014, 08:09 PM   #32
T'Girl
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Re: A question about holodecks.

Timo wrote: View Post
More like the holodeck bending over backward to satisfy Data's need to demonstrate that the holodeck has a wall there.
How did Data know that there was a wall there?

Can his senses perceive through the fantasy? Or did the holodeck computer manifest a wall where none actually existed to satify Data's needs?

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Old August 4 2014, 09:05 PM   #33
BeatleJWOL
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Re: A question about holodecks.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
More like the holodeck bending over backward to satisfy Data's need to demonstrate that the holodeck has a wall there.
How did Data know that there was a wall there?

Can his senses perceive through the fantasy?
If there's anybody on the ship that would be able to track through the holography and see the actual room dimensions, it's Data!

MAYBE Geordi but he seemed quite ready to, shall we say, embrace the holodeck...
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Old August 4 2014, 09:27 PM   #34
Timo
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Re: A question about holodecks.

I think the holodeck would be designed to throw off the user's "inertial compass", that is, defeat any attempts at counting steps or counting turns. That's more or less the point of the entire exercise. But Data might have a means of tapping into an outside reference even when his dead-reckoning senses are being deceived.

Say, Data claims his batteries constantly recharge themselves. Does he mean he is hooked up to wireless power transmitters aboard the ship, perhaps? He would then be aware of the locations of those transmitters, and could triangulate his position aboard the ship at any time no matter what the holodeck did to his gyroscopes.

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Old August 12 2014, 07:56 PM   #35
DarthTom
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Re: A question about holodecks.

trekshark wrote: View Post
supposedly there is some kind of treadmill effect so you end up walking in place and the picture around you changes so you think you're moving
The problem with that explination IMO is when you watch DS9 episodes where 1/2 dozen crew members are all in Quark's holodecks which appear visually no larger than a 12' x 12' room.

The simple volume of 12 people in such a confined space wouldn't make the treadmill explanation make sense logically. People would still bump into each other.
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Old August 12 2014, 08:27 PM   #36
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Re: A question about holodecks.

^Err, a half dozen is only six people. Or were you saying "one to two dozen?"
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Old August 12 2014, 11:22 PM   #37
Timelord Victorious
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Re: A question about holodecks.

Plus, i always just assumed that holodecks can be networked like modern MMOs producing avatars of users in other holodecks running the shared simulations. No bumping into each other that way.
I think that's pretty much a requirement for the baseball game episode.
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Old August 13 2014, 12:14 AM   #38
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Re: A question about holodecks.

Or maybe Quark has one really big holosuite that we never see turned off.
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Old August 13 2014, 03:27 AM   #39
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Re: A question about holodecks.

Well Quark did house a full on baseball game between Deep Space Nine and a Vulcan crew. With some people rooting from the crowd. Thus you have a few dozen people spread out across a stadium. The stadium is probably larger than the Promenade.
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Old August 13 2014, 08:51 AM   #40
Timo
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Re: A question about holodecks.

Whatever techniques the holodeck uses, it appears to be very good at anticipating. That's a general requirement for producing enjoyable entertainment, and no doubt Federation science (especially any putative commercial sector thereof) would dedicate a lot of resources to making its AI systems meet the requirement; an AI that anticipates human needs has uses beyond entertainment, after all.

With good anticipating skills, the holodeck could probably steer people around each other in confined spaces without embarrassing bumps. Say, Kira can be anticipated to start running from one base to another as the game proceeds; the computer will then put her on a treadmill. If Kira appears to risk hitting a Vulcan's legs while sliding to the next base, the computer can suddenly yank her up two meters so her hands don't reach the Vulcan and her legs don't kick Sisko who is standing two feet away (while thinking he is standing fifty yards away). Or the computer can tilt Kira 90 degrees so that she slides vertically, again avoiding collisions. Any bat that Nog swings can be cut in the middle, the tip replaced by a holoprojection, so that the swing doesn't decapitate Quark and Odo. Etc.

All it involves is quick reflexes, inertialess ways of manipulating the users' bodies and gear, and visual illusions to hide the fact that this is happening, and Star Trek technology should cater for all of the above.

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Old August 13 2014, 08:57 AM   #41
Ithekro
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Re: A question about holodecks.

It be interesting to see what the baseball game would have looked like without the projections. Imagine the empty room with the cast and extras all in there with holohelmets or something, acting as if they are at the game (because to them they are) but that we see what the holosuite is doing. Might be interesting.
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Old August 13 2014, 09:11 AM   #42
LMFAOschwarz
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Re: A question about holodecks.

Ithekro wrote: View Post
It be interesting to see what the baseball game would have looked like without the projections. Imagine the empty room with the cast and extras all in there with holohelmets or something, acting as if they are at the game (because to them they are) but that we see what the holosuite is doing. Might be interesting.
that would be interesting.

T'Girl's point above is interesting, too. Did/would the holodeck create a wall because Data mentioned it? To what extent would that be part of the experience? If someone was on a simulation of, say, a 20th century street, and the person said "I'd like to have an ice cream cone.", would the holodeck then "squeeze in" an ice cream shop?
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Old August 13 2014, 09:32 AM   #43
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Re: A question about holodecks.

Probably just have an ice cream truck start up the road. Music an all.
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Old August 13 2014, 09:39 AM   #44
Timo
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Re: A question about holodecks.

I gather there would be different flavors of program that would follow different basic rules. If you are just enjoying your mud bath with Lwaxana, it's okay to ask for a bit more alcohol and a bit less light in a circumspect way: the computer gets the hint while staying true to the simulation, and there's a convenient cloud and the waiter just happens to wander by... But if you are hacking your way through a zombie army, you have to specifically ask the computer in formal language to get your axe swapped for a chainsaw all of a sudden, because that's cheating. And if you play the Alamo, you have to halt and perhaps restart the program every time you want to adjust the parameters, because the very point is that it's history that happens in a certain way and you don't alter it lightly.

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Old August 14 2014, 02:42 AM   #45
trekshark
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Re: A question about holodecks.

"computer: idkfa"
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