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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old July 10 2014, 09:55 AM   #16
Mytran
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Re: A question about holodecks.

If they're both in planes, doesn't that make it even easier? Neither person is going to walk anywhere unexpected as they're both strapped into seats. All the computer needs to do is project convincing images around the cockpit areas and ensure they match up with one another.
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Old July 10 2014, 01:37 PM   #17
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Re: A question about holodecks.

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
What if two people go in to simulate a two-man pursuit, or even a man-on-man hunt of sorts. There is just no way the computer could know where to begin in trying to construct a 'reality' as the two men would wish to perceive it. Such a scenario would seem contradictory the norm, where people generally would go in to see or do the same thing, I would think.
Umm, how is that any different from a present-day MMORPG like Star Trek Online or World of Warcraft? Those are able to simulate a reality from the perspective of thousands of different players simultaneously. Granted, each individual player has their own software, but I presume they're all interfacing with some central game server somewhere that's sending them information about the world they're perceiving and coordinating them with one another. I think some such games even have split-screen modes so that one player's computer can show the virtual world from two locations at once. So what you're talking about is quite easy for early 21st-century computers to do; it shouldn't be a problem at all for a 24th-century computer that's eight decks high and processes at FTL speeds. (Although, really, one of the most outdated assumptions of TNG is that a computer would need to be anywhere near that huge to be that powerful.)
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Old July 13 2014, 03:41 PM   #18
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Re: A question about holodecks.

To me, the cool thing about holodecks and holograms is how the Doctor's mobile emitter works. Of course, since it was developed in the 29th century, Starfleet had not yet been able to duplicate it in the 24th century.

I think it would be great to use Hologrammic Engineers, especially in ships like the Oberth-class that are sleek but difficult to travel around on.
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Old July 13 2014, 03:46 PM   #19
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Re: A question about holodecks.

I figure the Federation must have been close to developing mobile emitters in the 2370s, otherwise the Temporal Integrity Commission probably wouldn't have let the Doctor keep his.
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Old July 13 2014, 07:07 PM   #20
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Re: A question about holodecks.

Once Voyager returned to the Federation, I figure it would be doubtful that the Doctor would be allowed to claim the mobile emitter as his personal property. No more than he would be able to claim the holo-emitters in Voyager's sick bay as his own.

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Old July 13 2014, 07:22 PM   #21
LMFAOschwarz
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Re: A question about holodecks.

Christopher wrote: View Post
I figure the Federation must have been close to developing mobile emitters in the 2370s, otherwise the Temporal Integrity Commission probably wouldn't have let the Doctor keep his.
Come to think of it, why would Janeway and Co. be okay with basically stealing technology from the future? In other stories, there's always a hue and cry about not contaminating the past, but I guess if they're the ones in the past, it's all right.

Bringing the emitter back is like putting a phaser in Captain Christopher' flight suit pocket, before he leaves in Tomorrow is Yesterday, isn't it?

I don't see a difference...
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Old July 13 2014, 07:30 PM   #22
matthunter
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Re: A question about holodecks.

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
I figure the Federation must have been close to developing mobile emitters in the 2370s, otherwise the Temporal Integrity Commission probably wouldn't have let the Doctor keep his.
Come to think of it, why would Janeway and Co. be okay with basically stealing technology from the future? In other stories, there's always a hue and cry about not contaminating the past, but I guess if they're the ones in the past, it's all right.

Bringing the emitter back is like putting a phaser in Captain Christopher' flight suit pocket, before he leaves in Tomorrow is Yesterday, isn't it?

I don't see a difference...
Braxton is restored at the end of their time travel adventure and doesn't do anything to take the emitter back - the chances he didn't know full well they had it are slim, with the sensors on the Aeon... The implicit suggestion is he let it slide for the same reason Scotty got away with giving the formula for transparent aluminium away in TVH - it always happened that way. Without the emitter, Voyager would have been toast on several subsequent occasions. His history may depend on Voyager having that emitter.
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Old July 16 2014, 04:11 PM   #23
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Re: A question about holodecks.

Or then the temporal police simply isn't very effective or powerful. They probably have their hands full hunting down major manipulations of the timeline already, and a few planets lost or gained is peanuts compared with the magnitude of "crimes" they typically deal with. OTOH, they may be impotent to act on major "crime", too, having to settle on a niche that best matches the powers of the organization with the needs of the society they attempt to protect.

That's how it works with normal police, too: there's very little in the way of resources to deal with domestic quarrels, and little incentive to do so, but there's also nothing the police can do about invasions or uprisings or upper league economic crime, so the emphasis is solidly on protecting middle class property and sleep. And I could see the middle class sleeping soundly even with the EMH in possession of a portable holoemitter.

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Old July 18 2014, 08:02 AM   #24
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Re: A question about holodecks.

Btw...do you think there is any fundemental advantage a holodeck has over a holosuite? We know that holosuites are much smaller..otoh there is the treadmill effect. But even with the treadmill effect, shouldn´t the number of possible real persons in a holosuite at a given time be smaller then in a holodeck?
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Old July 18 2014, 08:15 AM   #25
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Re: A question about holodecks.

FreddyE wrote: View Post
Btw...do you think there is any fundemental advantage a holodeck has over a holosuite? We know that holosuites are much smaller..otoh there is the treadmill effect. But even with the treadmill effect, shouldn´t the number of possible real persons in a holosuite at a given time be smaller then in a holodeck?
In my mind, at some point you're just hitting the physical limitations of the room, much like in an elevator. No matter how elaborate the optical and tactile illusions are, at some point people are going to physically run into each other or into the walls.

So yeah, I think a larger holodeck like we saw on the Galaxy class should have a higher capacity than the holosuites on DS9.
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Old July 18 2014, 09:04 AM   #26
Timo
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Re: A question about holodecks.

On the other hand, even the small holosuites of DS9 can successfully simulate a baseball court, with at least two teamfuls of live users rather than mere holographic NPCs.

Whether this is the result of packing 'em in real tight, or virtually linking together all of Quark's holosuites, we don't know. But the holosuites are rather tall rooms, so the computer could plausibly stack users in several layers if need be. And since it seems that holotech frequently involves the use of transporters or replicators or related technologies, it might also be that once a specific suite becomes too crowded, a user is discreetly beamed over to another, linked suite, or even to some sort of a "storage facility" that provides low-level simulations of fairly static situations for passive users at low cost.

I guess much depends on whether a user running a "kinetic" holoprogram, one that requires lots of movement from the user such as running and swinging a bat, is really doing those moves - or is merely standing or lying down in a state of semi-sedation and is being fed false sensory information that makes him think he is doing the moves. I don't think there's much evidence for the latter in Trek, even though it might be how most VR in the real world will eventually be done.

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Old July 18 2014, 02:29 PM   #27
Christopher
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Re: A question about holodecks.

FreddyE wrote: View Post
Btw...do you think there is any fundemental advantage a holodeck has over a holosuite? We know that holosuites are much smaller..otoh there is the treadmill effect. But even with the treadmill effect, shouldn´t the number of possible real persons in a holosuite at a given time be smaller then in a holodeck?
Actually the only difference between the two is that a holodeck is on a ship and a holosuite is on a stationary facility. After all, "deck" is a term used only on ships, so when DS9's creators decided that Quark's establishment would have holographic environment simulators, they needed to coin a different name for them. Quark's holosuites are no smaller than the smallest of the several holodeck sizes in use on the Enterprise-D. (The TNG Tech Manual and blueprints establish there are smaller "personal" holodecks on the ship in addition to the larger ones.)
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Old July 18 2014, 09:26 PM   #28
Timo
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Re: A question about holodecks.

The meaning of terminology changes over time, but "suite" in today's terms might be taken to mean a collection of multiple, joined rooms.

Back in TAS, the holographic recreation facility was known as a "room", and indeed appeared to be a single room (but so vast that its appearance probably was another simulation!). The baseball example suggests Quark's facilities do interconnect (even if only virtually) and therefore meet the definition of "suite". So we might just as well declare the holodeck an entire "deck" of holographic rooms in keeping with the actual meaning of the terminology today...

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Old July 21 2014, 02:26 AM   #29
Lord Manitou
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Re: A question about holodecks.

One should never underestimate the level of Tech that goes into a holo-deck. How big or complicated the environment is depends on where the computer distributes the power required. A logic based charisma of throwing around 3 dimensional stuff derived from stories or parameter lists. Really, how big an activated holo deck is how much power you'd throw into it.
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Old July 21 2014, 10:29 AM   #30
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Re: A question about holodecks.

Initial limitations of the holodeck, like Data throwing a stone against the wall, we're patched out by the Bynars a few episodes later.
To them it was an end to a means to give the Enterprise a much more advanced holo system, but Starfleet kept using the new standard of course.
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