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Old July 9 2014, 06:17 PM   #31
doubleohfive
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

The single biggest fault of KOCS is that it's a film made by two guys in their twilight years as opposed to trying to make the kind of film they made (and which benefited from who they were) in their youthful prime.
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Old July 9 2014, 07:01 PM   #32
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

Of all the Indiana Jones movies, Kingdom is my least favorite. I don't hate it, but I haven't watched it in years, whereas with the others I usually catch on TV or pop in the DVD's from time to time.

I don't mind the story, I don't mind the fact that Indy and Marion are a bit different (though Marion comes across as someone who is high throughout the movie)... heck I don't even mind Mutt that much, though I would have preferred a different actor.

What I can't stand about the movie is the overuse of CGI. That terrible Jeep/Jungle scene being the worst in my opinion.
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Old July 9 2014, 07:22 PM   #33
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

For me it's like the Star Wars prequels. I like them for the fact they make me feel like an 8 year old again.... BUT, I know it's not really all that great and so don't return to it very often.
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Old July 9 2014, 07:25 PM   #34
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

If they wanted to do an Indy 5 it should be Old Indy (like what they did in the tv show) telling the tale of an adventure his 20 something year old self had in the 1920's. If you can get the right actor to play a 25 year old Indy it may work out great.
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Old July 9 2014, 07:28 PM   #35
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

One of the biggest recurring criticisms of this movie, that aliens have no place in Indiana Jones, makes not the slightest bit of sense to me. Indy is a hero based on 30s serials; sci-fi was part of that genre, even if the earlier movies skewed more toward fantasy elements. By the time you get to the 50s, where the movie is set, sci-fi was by far the dominant genre in pulp-type entertainment.

I can see why people might dislike the aesthetic differences between the film and the preceding three, as we've moved from an era of practical effects to the CGI-heavy modern blockbuster style. And both here and in The Adventures of Tintin, Spielberg evinces a strong love of using that technology for really madcap action scenes.
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Old July 9 2014, 07:52 PM   #36
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

It's also amazing how utterly predictable the movie is. The second we see the alien skull, we know the movie will end with Indy going to a temple and encountering some aliens. And there's never any doubt that Mutt will be revealed to be Indy and Marian's son at some point. Or that Mac will betray them once again.

With the other movies things weren't nearly so obvious from the start. I mean, you probably wouldn't expect Doom to end with Indy on a rope bridge of all things.
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Old July 9 2014, 07:53 PM   #37
Professor Zoom
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
One of the biggest recurring criticisms of this movie, that aliens have no place in Indiana Jones, makes not the slightest bit of sense to me. Indy is a hero based on 30s serials; sci-fi was part of that genre, even if the earlier movies skewed more toward fantasy elements. By the time you get to the 50s, where the movie is set, sci-fi was by far the dominant genre in pulp-type entertainment.
This. He always seemed to reflect the popular adventure genre of the time the movie was set.

It makes a lot of sense to me that aliens are involved.

It's not the idea, I think it's the execution. If it had been a great movie, I don't think anyone would have cared about the aliens.


I can see why people might dislike the aesthetic differences between the film and the preceding three, as we've moved from an era of practical effects to the CGI-heavy modern blockbuster style. And both here and in The Adventures of Tintin, Spielberg evinces a strong love of using that technology for really madcap action scenes.
I wonder if there's also the fact that it's so easy to rematch Raiders and the originals, that maybe we are less forgiving of change. We want the thing that we loved. But, the people who made it, and we, of course, have all changed, but the object we loved hasn't.

Indy SHOULD'VE changed from the end of Crusade to Kingdom... people change over that amount of time...

But, then, again, maybe if he had changed in a way that we liked, that we connected to, then we wouldn't have cared.

It happened with the prequels and it happened with this, fans got excited to see their old friends again to be disappointed they didn't meet the expectations.

And so it will be with Episode 7. "That's not HAN SOLO!" Etc, etc.
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Old July 9 2014, 08:03 PM   #38
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

I'm not going to sit here and try to defend it to people who obviously dislike it, but I've never had a problem with the movie personally. In fact I really like a lot of it, and to me the Jeep Chase is the stand out set piece in the movie.

Is there over-reliance on CGI? Sure there is, and I wish it wasn't there. I'm also not fond of the glossy sheen the whole movie has which makes things appear more artificial then they are. But I enjoy the story, and I enjoy seeing Harrison playing Indy again.

I haven't done a proper re-watch of the series in ages, so I honestly can't say how Crystal Skull stacks up to the other films, but I never did (and still don't) think it's the horrible "child-raping" film that a lot of people like to make it out to be.
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Old July 9 2014, 08:07 PM   #39
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

I think if they seriously were to do an Indy 5, I think it should have him getting killed, not because I dislike him, but because I don't want to imagine Indy spending the last ten years of his life in a nursing home. Something cool and heroic, of course, nothing stupid like falling off a bridge. I think it would serve the story and the character, and I don't see Speilburg or Lucas having the guts (balls, whatever) to do something like that.
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Old July 9 2014, 08:08 PM   #40
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

Aldo wrote: View Post
I never did (and still don't) think it's the horrible "child-raping" film that a lot of people like to make it out to be.
It's childhood-raping, not child-raping. If you're going to quote nonsense, get it right.

Marsden wrote: View Post
I think if they seriously were to do an Indy 5, I think it should have him getting killed, not because I dislike him, but because I don't want to imagine Indy spending the last ten years of his life in a nursing home. Something cool and heroic, of course, nothing stupid like falling off a bridge. I think it would serve the story and the character, and I don't see Speilburg or Lucas having the guts (balls, whatever) to do something like that.
Well, we were talking about how the Indy stories mirror the popular entertainment of the time, Indy 4 mimicking the SF pulp entertainment of the 50's. Indy 5 should get us into the 60's... so he can simply regenerate into a younger actor.

Anyway, after his experiences with the Ark and the Holy Grail, death would be less appropriate than being carried away to Heaven in a chariot of fire.
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Old July 9 2014, 08:21 PM   #41
doubleohfive
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

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Old July 9 2014, 08:26 PM   #42
Marsden
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

Captrek wrote: View Post
Anyway, after his experiences with the Ark and the Holy Grail, death would be less appropriate than being carried away to Heaven in a chariot of fire.
I would really like that, maybe you can write the next movie.
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Old July 9 2014, 08:28 PM   #43
Professor Zoom
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

Marsden wrote: View Post
Captrek wrote: View Post
Anyway, after his experiences with the Ark and the Holy Grail, death would be less appropriate than being carried away to Heaven in a chariot of fire.
I would really like that, maybe you can write the next movie.
Nah. No chariots.

But, a boat. With Elves and Hobbits.
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Old July 9 2014, 08:41 PM   #44
RoJoHen
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

Captrek wrote: View Post

Anyway, after his experiences with the Ark and the Holy Grail, death would be less appropriate than being carried away to Heaven in a chariot of fire.
I think more appropriate would be God striking him down for messing with his stuff.
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Old July 9 2014, 09:31 PM   #45
davejames
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
One of the biggest recurring criticisms of this movie, that aliens have no place in Indiana Jones, makes not the slightest bit of sense to me. Indy is a hero based on 30s serials; sci-fi was part of that genre, even if the earlier movies skewed more toward fantasy elements. By the time you get to the 50s, where the movie is set, sci-fi was by far the dominant genre in pulp-type entertainment.
I know that was Lucas's argument, but I have to agree with Spielberg and Ford that it just feels much more natural to see Indy dealing with religious artifacts that have a basis in real history, than to see him dealing with... flying saucers and little green men.

To argue that it's all interchangeable just makes no sense to me. Because after all, superheroes like Superman and Batman were a part of that genre as well. Would people really have no problem with Indy interacting with guys wearing superhero tights and a cape as well? Who can fly and shoot laser beams out of their eyes? I mean, really? Do you not see a difference in style and tone between those things at all??
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