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Old July 27 2014, 11:52 AM   #31
2takesfrakes
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Re: Jurassic World

I am beginning to wonder: Can any dinosaur movie ever be done The Right Way? I don't think it's happened yet. The original Jurassic Park had a lot going for it, but it still doesn't stand up to repeated viewings ...
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Old July 27 2014, 01:03 PM   #32
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Re: Jurassic World

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
I am beginning to wonder: Can any dinosaur movie ever be done The Right Way? I don't think it's happened yet. The original Jurassic Park had a lot going for it, but it still doesn't stand up to repeated viewings ...
Couldn't disagree more. The story has some shaky moments, but the CGI and animatronic dinosaurs which are the main draw still hold up remarkably well 21 years later and surpass even some film's FX made today. I was in awe seeing the film for the first time in 1993 when they see that first Brachiosaurus. The novel was one of my favorites and given the fledgling CGI of the time (Terminator II had just opened up new possibilities a couple years earlier), I never thought the novel could be fully realized in such vivid fashion. Nostalgia may play a roll, but I still find JP to me very enjoyable and watch it whenever it's on TV or occasionally on DVD.
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Old July 27 2014, 01:19 PM   #33
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Re: Jurassic World

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
but it still doesn't stand up to repeated viewings ...
Except that it does. It still looks fantastic, some of the moral issues it tried to raise (not very well, mind you) are even more aplicable now then ever, and the acting is the same as your average blockbuster these days.
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Old July 27 2014, 06:10 PM   #34
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Re: Jurassic World

Has JW been confirmed a direct sequel to the other films 'cause, what I am reading here sounds like a reboot. Did I miss something?

How could they, after everything that's happened, even consider rebuilding the park? The first time around "spared no expense" and yet failed miserably before the damn thing even opened. Are they nuts, or could that be the point... that TPTB never learn a lesson?

Starting from scratch, revisiting the original premise, only makes sense [to me] in context of it being a reboot... something like, in this universe the park holds together as intended past the events of the original story. A reputation of control and safety is well established. Things don't get out of hand until the worst possible time... Perhaps at the height of a 4th of July weekend, (wink wink) the park is running at full capacity, every hotel room filled with happy guests (i.e. tasty snacks) when the dinosaur crap hits the fan.
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Old July 27 2014, 07:05 PM   #35
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Re: Jurassic World

It is a direct sequel. And I think it makes perfect sense to rebuild the park, live dinosaurs=printing money. People die in zoos every year yet almost every city has at least one.
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Old July 27 2014, 07:10 PM   #36
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Re: Jurassic World

The Keeper wrote: View Post
Has JW been confirmed a direct sequel to the other films 'cause, what I am reading here sounds like a reboot. Did I miss something?

How could they, after everything that's happened, even consider rebuilding the park? The first time around "spared no expense" and yet failed miserably before the damn thing even opened. Are they nuts, or could that be the point... that TPTB never learn a lesson?

Starting from scratch, revisiting the original premise, only makes sense [to me] in context of it being a reboot... something like, in this universe the park holds together as intended past the events of the original story. A reputation of control and safety is well established. Things don't get out of hand until the worst possible time... Perhaps at the height of a 4th of July weekend, (wink wink) the park is running at full capacity, every hotel room filled with happy guests (i.e. tasty snacks) when the dinosaur crap hits the fan.

The story takes place 22 years after the events of the first Jurassic Park. It's a sequel. I brought up the whole issue of the world wouldn't ever allow this to be built but someone brought up the fact money talks and there is money to be made with dinosaurs. Which is why this movie is being made.
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Old July 28 2014, 12:25 AM   #37
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Re: Jurassic World

Nobody expects ILM to have been 20 years ahead of its time, but the T-Rex and Raptors do look kind of flat, occassionally. Otherwise, what ILM & STAN WINSTON's workshop did was mind-blowing! I'm really a fan of the T-Rex look, in particular. That's how they would be, as far as I'm concerned. All the A-List actors of the time were in it, and all deliver solid performances. What makes repeated viewings difficult for me is Steven Spielberg's direction, honestly. And some of his story touches. For example:

In trying to cut corners, when Ian, Ellie and Alan (and I guess the lawyer was there?) all get to see the raptors being fed a live cow in their pen. The cow up in the air with his hooves splayed out and circling, feeling for solid ground was a sight. But it's all done with sound effects, like we're not supposed to care or notice. Everybody looking into the pen, supposedly watching this gets a palm plant waved in their face, like ... what the hell's THAT? Not even a Raptor tail, up in the air, or nothing! The whole scene is just so stupid and pointless. It's just there to eat time.

Hammond's insufferable speech about his days with The Flea Circus is an automatic skip-through. Like Speilberg's trying to summon his Quint speech again, from JAWS. Problem is Hammond's speech is lame and moronic. All of that time spent driving through the empty park needed to get edited down. The stupid kids who won't grab the gun on the floor, when Ellie and Alan are stuck keeping the door closed from a Raptor trying to get in is another situation that's just incredibly stupid and just there to eat up time. Have the kid get the gun! But no, Steven doesn't want to shoot that. The DNA cartoon goes on far too long and borders on annoying. It's just so stupid, as is the goofy "ride" their on, in the first place.

A lot of other things in this movie are Steven Speilberg's fault as well and it just makes watching this movie hard to watch without very long breaks, in between. And the worst thing about the story of JURASSIC PARK was that it's own premise wasn't even what ended up being the case. "Oh, noes! Man & Dinos can't co-exist! Man's playing "god," surely he will be punished and destroyed by his own creations!" Hammond's park had it's problems, yes, but that was necessary only to serve the story. Otherwise, JURASSIC PARK had these animals contained, if not necessarily controlled. Dennis Nedry's greed changed everything. It had nothing to do with "the system." JURASSIC PARK worked fine. Yet, everybody's convinced the Park's the problem, by the end of this movie, because of it's own movie-mentality. If Speilberg wasn't really interested in these kinds of movies anymore, than he shouldn't have been making them. It's just a hard movie to re-engage myself in, even though I love the robots and CGI involved.
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Old July 28 2014, 12:44 AM   #38
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Re: Jurassic World

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
I am beginning to wonder: Can any dinosaur movie ever be done The Right Way? I don't think it's happened yet. The original Jurassic Park had a lot going for it, but it still doesn't stand up to repeated viewings ...
Couldn't disagree more. The story has some shaky moments, but the CGI and animatronic dinosaurs which are the main draw still hold up remarkably well 21 years later and surpass even some film's FX made today. I was in awe seeing the film for the first time in 1993 when they see that first Brachiosaurus. The novel was one of my favorites and given the fledgling CGI of the time (Terminator II had just opened up new possibilities a couple years earlier), I never thought the novel could be fully realized in such vivid fashion. Nostalgia may play a roll, but I still find JP to me very enjoyable and watch it whenever it's on TV or occasionally on DVD.
And it looked great in the theater last year as well.

Besides did the 3D release make a decent amount of money at the box office?
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Old July 28 2014, 01:12 AM   #39
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Re: Jurassic World

^ It made $45 million domestically and was the number one film when it was released, and did huge business in China were apparently 3D films do much better than here.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/...ssicpark3d.htm

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...ic-park-614090

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
In trying to cut corners, when Ian, Ellie and Alan (and I guess the lawyer was there?) all get to see the raptors being fed a live cow in their pen. The cow up in the air with his hooves splayed out and circling, feeling for solid ground was a sight. But it's all done with sound effects, like we're not supposed to care or notice. Everybody looking into the pen, supposedly watching this gets a palm plant waved in their face, like ... what the hell's THAT? Not even a Raptor tail, up in the air, or nothing! The whole scene is just so stupid and pointless. It's just there to eat time.
Well, yeah, it's following the monster movie "less is more" philosophy that Jaws inadvertently perfected because the shark was always malfunctioning. Keep the main "baddies" concealed and mysterious and dangerous until it's time for their big reveal to build up suspense.

Hammond's insufferable speech about his days with The Flea Circus is an automatic skip-through. Like Speilberg's trying to summon his Quint speech again, from JAWS.
I'm fine with Hammond's speech, but never have I considered it in any way a call back to Quint's terrifying monologue in Jaws. They're just so tonally and thematically different.

The stupid kids who won't grab the gun on the floor, when Ellie and Alan are stuck keeping the door closed from a Raptor trying to get in is another situation that's just incredibly stupid and just there to eat up time. Have the kid get the gun! But no, Steven doesn't want to shoot that.
The gun wouldn't have helped them at that moment anyway. Grant and Sattler were doing everything they could just to hold the door closed from the Raptor. Shooting it would have required getting out of the way of blocking the door, which would leave them vulnerable to attack until they had gotten up, aimed, and fired. That kid wasn't big enough to accurately and safely fire a shotgun under distress with Grant and Sattler right next to the line of fire either.

The DNA cartoon goes on far too long and borders on annoying. It's just so stupid, as is the goofy "ride" their on, in the first place.
It's supposed to be goofy. That's the point. It was about Hammond trying to reduce these extremely dangerous creatures into something as mundane and kid friendly as a ride at Disneyland. It's an illustration of his hubris.

A lot of other things in this movie are Steven Speilberg's fault as well and it just makes watching this movie hard to watch without very long breaks, in between. And the worst thing about the story of JURASSIC PARK was that it's own premise wasn't even what ended up being the case. "Oh, noes! Man & Dinos can't co-exist! Man's playing "god," surely he will be punished and destroyed by his own creations!" Hammond's park had it's problems, yes, but that was necessary only to serve the story. Otherwise, JURASSIC PARK had these animals contained, if not necessarily controlled. Dennis Nedry's greed changed everything. It had nothing to do with "the system." JURASSIC PARK worked fine. Yet, everybody's convinced the Park's the problem, by the end of this movie, because of it's own movie-mentality. If Speilberg wasn't really interested in these kinds of movies anymore, than he shouldn't have been making them. It's just a hard movie to re-engage myself in, even though I love the robots and CGI involved.
A lot of the stuff you're blaming on Spielberg were features of the novel the film was adapted from, and Michael Crichton can hardly be called a liberal (at least not on certain issues like the environment), which was your source of angst about Spielberg in your last rant about him.

While I agree that having Nedry sabotage the park for greed undercuts the message that building a park was a bad idea from the start because you can't control nature (I guess there are no working zoos and nature reserves then), that's a feature of the book, not some insidious liberal message Spielberg inserted on his own, so blaming him makes no sense.

But there were already elements that the park was slipping out of their control and built on poor reasoning before Nedry's sabotage, namely with the poison plants the triceratops was eating, that dinosaurs were getting Lysine from the plant life --thus negating their Lysine contingency plan, that they bred a dinosaur like the Raptors that were too dangerous to display, and most importantly, that the dinosaurs were able to change sex and reproduce in the wild completely unbeknownst to them, which means they never bothered to check on the dinosaurs again once they released them into the park.

So while I don't think the idea of such a park being run effectively is impossible, I do think the idea of Hammond and InGen running a park effectively is. They never had the proper respect for what they were dealing with.
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Old July 28 2014, 09:40 AM   #40
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Re: Jurassic World

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
But there were already elements that the park was slipping out of their control and built on poor reasoning before Nedry's sabotage, namely with the poison plants the triceratops was eating, that dinosaurs were getting Lysine from the plant life --thus negating their Lysine contingency plan, that they bred a dinosaur like the Raptors that were too dangerous to display, and most importantly, that the dinosaurs were able to change sex and reproduce in the wild completely unbeknownst to them, which means they never bothered to check on the dinosaurs again once they released them into the park.

So while I don't think the idea of such a park being run effectively is impossible, I do think the idea of Hammond and InGen running a park effectively is. They never had the proper respect for what they were dealing with.
There are also several aspects of the book that focus on their lack of control/respect for the animals. The tracking system is only designed to monitor the set amount of dinosaurs and not monitor more. When this get's changed, the Dino population increases by several dozen to over 300!

There is also the fact the monitors don't have full coverage of the island, the Raptors in particular take advantage of this and have created a thriving nest in the lower areas of Isle Nublar. Something which I wouldn't be surprised Jurassic World as a story point in the film.

And of course, they didn't actually realise how dangerous the Dino's would be. The speed of the TRex, the poison glands of the Dilopho's and of course, the intelligence of the Raptors, which at one point, there was talk in the novel of breeding them to be more docile, another thing which sounds as if will happen in the new film

Jurassic Park was the first ever film I saw at the cinema, it does hold a certain sentimentality for me and I can still sit down and rewatch it now and I generally can't wait to see Jurassic World next summer.
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Old July 28 2014, 09:46 AM   #41
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Re: Jurassic World

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
I was in awe seeing the film for the first time in 1993 when they see that first Brachiosaurus.
We got the first JP on Blu-ray and that scene still gives us goosebumps. That movie holds up incredibly well.
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Old July 28 2014, 12:10 PM   #42
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Re: Jurassic World

I've never read any of Crichton's novels, though I'm given to understand that the Ian Malcolm character is presumed dead at the end of Jurassic Park, because of the many severe injuries he's had inflicted on him. So, I don't know how true the movie LOST WORLD was to the novel it's supposedly based on, but it's a horrible movie. If they are close at all, I have to wonder if there wasn't some collaboration between Crichton and Speilberg on it, because it's just one set-piece after another.

It's a Hollywood B-Movie with an A-List budget, with characters acting completely contrary not only to logic but even their own logic, at times. For example, Tembo's providing Earth First Guy every opportunity to screw with his gun. And how even though Hammond's Nephew Peter has the dinosaur's under control at his base camp, it's not his arrogance that sets him up - it's Earth First Guy's setting animals free and blowing up things. The result of which is some people dying and Earth First Guy (and/or Ian or the rest of them) is never held accountable for that.

What's more, the absolutely Ludacris scene where Peter, who's paying The Marlboro Men's (no doubt HEFTY) salaries, is snubbed by those very same Men, when he orders them to move out, in favour of obeying that same command from Earth First Guy!!! And this was AFTER he'd already put them all in danger and ruined their camp. He also ensures Eddy of his undeserved death when he carts off a baby T-Rex to the good guy's camp, to fix it's leg.

Only Tembo gets snapped at for his indifference regarding Eddy's death, while the actual culprit whose actions caused it NEVER gets a speech, or freaked out on, or anything of the sort. Time and again, LOST WORLD puts forward the suggestion that Dinosaurs are more important than people, in that regard. Now, whether that was Crichton's message in his sequel novel, I can't even speculate ... but the movie is a mess. Ian's girlfriend is no small part of that, either.
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Old July 28 2014, 03:16 PM   #43
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Re: Jurassic World

Yes, Ian Malcolm was retconned to be alive in The Lost World novel too. Chrichton was not originally going to write a sequel, but did so at Spielberg's urging, and the film was in production as soon as the book wrapped.

But all of that is inconsequential, since we were discussing Jurassic Park, not The Lost World. I'm not defending The Lost World, which was a mess.

By the way, Ludacris is a rapper and actor. The word you're looking for is "ludicrous."
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Old July 28 2014, 09:45 PM   #44
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Re: Jurassic World

Having read The Lost World it really has nothing to do with the movie, and even if you don't like movie it's one of the only movies better than the book.
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Old July 28 2014, 09:55 PM   #45
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Re: Jurassic World

I'm still waiting to see the chameleon dinosaurs from the book be realized, though. That would be an awesome alternative to the raptors being the chief "bad dinos". The part where they were standing in front of the fence when the lightning struck and mimicked the effect with only a tiny delay and their shadows that gave them away was cool even in print.
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