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Old July 9 2014, 04:36 AM   #31
BillJ
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Re: The devastation of the Klingon Homeworld between STVI and TNG

wulfio wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
wulfio wrote: View Post

You however, are condescending in 90% of the posts I see you write.
Just 90%? Shit, I'm slacking.

Though I am honored that you are going around grading all of my posts. Makes me feel special.
I really hope for your sake that you`re a teenager.
Been a member since 2001, I'm sure you can do the math.
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Old July 9 2014, 06:34 AM   #32
Anwar
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Re: The devastation of the Klingon Homeworld between STVI and TNG

I think what Spock was saying was that because the Klingons diverted so much of their economy and resources to their military they couldn't maintain their Cold War with the Feds and repair the damage to their World at the same time.

The Accords ended the immediate hostilities and allowed them to repair their World.

And was Praxis a moon of their homeworld? I assumed it was "A" Moon, not the moon in their system. A shockwave like that would've done a lot more damage than just mess up the atmosphere a little.
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Old July 9 2014, 09:44 AM   #33
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Re: The devastation of the Klingon Homeworld between STVI and TNG

Anwar wrote: View Post
And was Praxis a moon of their homeworld?
It would be like if Titan exploded and the Klingon referred to it as "a Human moon." Praxis could even have been located in an adjacent star system to the homeworld.

The damage to the Klingon homeworld was to it's atmosphere, Spock made no mention of surface destruction.

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Old July 9 2014, 10:34 AM   #34
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The devastation of the Klingon Homeworld between STVI and TNG

Anwar wrote: View Post
And was Praxis a moon of their homeworld? I assumed it was "A" Moon, not the moon in their system. A shockwave like that would've done a lot more damage than just mess up the atmosphere a little.
Praxis is definitely the moon of Kronos in the classic novel Sarek (where Kronos is left with a rocky ring of rubble and major seismic disturbances) and the movie Into Darkness, where we see it in chunks and Kronos is being evacuated.
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Old July 9 2014, 11:37 AM   #35
Robert Comsol
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Re: The devastation of the Klingon Homeworld between STVI and TNG

Last Redshirt wrote: View Post
The Klingon Empire surely has hundreds of systems either fully colonized by Klingons or under occupation by the Klingons, though.
Yes. But I was wondering how a local event threatening the Klingon homeworld, could make the Starfleet commander-in-chief arrive at this conclusion:

"The Klingon Empire has roughly fifty years of life left."

And Sulu stated "Praxis is their key energy production facility" (near the Klingon homeworld?), yet Kang's wife Mara stated that the Klingon core systems are "poor" (which I interpreted as poor natural resources).

Bob
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Old July 9 2014, 01:14 PM   #36
BillJ
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Re: The devastation of the Klingon Homeworld between STVI and TNG

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post

Yes. But I was wondering how a local event threatening the Klingon homeworld, could make the Starfleet commander-in-chief arrive at this conclusion:

"The Klingon Empire has roughly fifty years of life left."
Likely meaning the Empire would break apart without Kronos.

And Sulu stated "Praxis is their key energy production facility" (near the Klingon homeworld?), yet Kang's wife Mara stated that the Klingon core systems are "poor" (which I interpreted as poor natural resources).
I think you are taking things too literally. Poor doesn't equate to none.
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Old July 9 2014, 03:29 PM   #37
T'Girl
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Re: The devastation of the Klingon Homeworld between STVI and TNG

Poor could also mean "economically mismanaged." The star systems within the Empire could be just as rich in resources as those in the Federation, but if the Klingon economic system is royally fucked up, the Empire as a result would be poor.

Think Russia under communism.

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Old July 9 2014, 03:40 PM   #38
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Re: The devastation of the Klingon Homeworld between STVI and TNG

BillJ wrote: View Post
wulfio wrote: View Post
Subspace isn`t a real thing.
Neither is Star Trek.
And actually, sorry, but the verdict is out on whether subspace - or at least, something that works just like it insofar as being a subset of space with a higher absolute speed of light - is real or not.
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Old July 9 2014, 04:50 PM   #39
Robert Comsol
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Re: The devastation of the Klingon Homeworld between STVI and TNG

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Poor could also mean "economically mismanaged."
And you think Kang's wife Mara, already a victim of Klingon propaganda, would admit in front of a Starfleet officer that the Klingon economy was mismanaged?

"There are poor planets in the Klingon systems, we must push outward if we are to survive."

Mara is justifying Klingon expansion, they push outward because they lack resources they need for survival. YMMV.

Bob
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Old July 9 2014, 05:24 PM   #40
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Re: The devastation of the Klingon Homeworld between STVI and TNG

I think it's safe to say there was some hyperbole on some of those statements.

The Empire has 50 years left? Will the colonies revolt without that strong central autonomy in Moscow, er Kronos. Maybe the Romulans and Tholians and possibly Cardasians would seize territory on their respective sides while the center is in disarray. There's lots of possiblities.

And just for my opinion, Common Sense and Science aren't on speaking terms, especially when discussing Star Trek.

I think the Shockwave, (he was one of my favorite Decepticons) floated around so long it turned in to a ribbon of energy and started sending people to paradise, and their horses, too.
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Old July 9 2014, 06:02 PM   #41
BillJ
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Re: The devastation of the Klingon Homeworld between STVI and TNG

Marsden wrote: View Post
I think it's safe to say there was some hyperbole on some of those statements.
We'd be in some serious shit if we took every bit of dialogue from Star Trek literally. We should all be honest here, we've all done some serious messaging of the dialogue to make it all seem semi-coherent.
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Old July 9 2014, 09:41 PM   #42
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Re: The devastation of the Klingon Homeworld between STVI and TNG

I think it was mentioned upthread, but the shockwave is depicted as a ring. That being the case, it could easily miss the planet (if it expanded outward as anything but a flat angle) and still strike Excelsior (which could be anywhere in 3 dimensional space)
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Old July 9 2014, 11:06 PM   #43
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Re: The devastation of the Klingon Homeworld between STVI and TNG

Or one could conclude that a subspace shockwave would only effect things in a subspace field, which most starships are. Besides, wasn't Excelsior suppose to be on her way back after a long mission?
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Old July 9 2014, 11:35 PM   #44
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Re: The devastation of the Klingon Homeworld between STVI and TNG

Xerxes1979 wrote: View Post
All waves I know of in nature weaken over distance. The Excelsior, a vessel weighing many thousands of tons was flipped over in less than two seconds.

Surely the force at the point of origin must have been astronomical. I don't see how any vessel in that solar system survived or the atmosphere for that matter.

Using TNG canon one could argue the shockwave somehow resembled the soloton wave that magically got stronger and traveled in a two-dimensional plane.
I agree. And, perhaps, the Klingons simply renamed an undamaged planet "Qo'nos".
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Old July 9 2014, 11:40 PM   #45
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Re: The devastation of the Klingon Homeworld between STVI and TNG

"Or one could conclude that a subspace shockwave would only effect things in a subspace field, which most starships are. Besides, wasn't Excelsior suppose to be on her way back after a long mission?"


I was just thinking of that. A subspace shockwave could propagate differently in subspace than a shockwave in normal space. And it might not effect things in normal space. Such as planets. While the subspace shockwave could be traveling at warp speed. The normal space shockwave (primarily a debris front) might take some time to reach Kronos. Perhaps days or months. I would think that if Praxis was actually a moon of Kronos. Then Kronos would have been immediately decimated or have disintegrated itself.
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