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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old July 14 2014, 04:15 PM   #1
Shat Happens
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violence

I don't like the scene where Khan crushed Marcus' skull with his bare hands -- and in front of his daughter whose leg he just had broken too. With disgusting sounds.

Was it needed? I am sure not.

Fantasy sci-fi traditionally used rayguns not only for the futuristic look but to avoid showing blood and such when dispatching enemies. I

I also didn't like in ST2009 when Kirk ordered open fire with all weapons at an enemy already defeated. In traditional Star Trek the enemy would "honorably" self-destruct after refusing help.

I also didn't like in STID that Kirk took our beloved starship Enterprise as a weapon of vengeance and execution on John Harrison. And at the end they didnt think twice before forcibly dissected him for the magic ressurection.

Star Trek should be cleaner.

But I'm just one guy.
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Old July 14 2014, 04:46 PM   #2
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: violence

Shat Happens wrote: View Post
I don't like the scene where Khan crushed Marcus' skull with his bare hands -- and in front of his daughter whose leg he just had broken too. With disgusting sounds.

Was it needed? I am sure not.
Fair enough.
Fantasy sci-fi traditionally used rayguns not only for the futuristic look but to avoid showing blood and such when dispatching enemies. I
Waitasec, it was totally bloodless! Khan's hands and shirt were magically clean immediately afterwords and not covered in brains and gore like one would expect. Also we never got a shot of Carol's leg after it was broken. All the nasty stuff is implied rather than shown.
I also didn't like in ST2009 when Kirk ordered open fire with all weapons at an enemy already defeated. In traditional Star Trek the enemy would "honorably" self-destruct after refusing help.
Fair enough (although the possibility of Nero possibly having a last ditch plan or him escaping through time has been discussed to death already)
I also didn't like in STID that Kirk took our beloved starship Enterprise as a weapon of vengeance and execution on John Harrison. And at the end they didnt think twice before forcibly dissected him for the magic ressurection.

Star Trek should be cleaner.

But I'm just one guy.
Wait, dissected Khan? They just took some blood. And wasn't the entire point of Kirk using the Enterprise to hunt down "Harrison" that he thought better of it, showing that revenge isn't the way?
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Old July 14 2014, 05:17 PM   #3
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Re: violence

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
All the nasty stuff is implied rather than shown.
Same thing to me, sometimes it's even worse. Either way, I think it's too violent for a Star Trek movie.

(although the possibility of Nero possibly having a last ditch plan or him escaping through time has been discussed to death already)
Has it? I think I wasn't here during that discussion. But it didnt seem so in the movie.

Wait, dissected Khan? They just took some blood.
Yes, but how much does it need to be harvested to be considered a dissection? Also, I'm not a English native speaker, maybe dissection isn't the right word. Is "forced harvest" better? even if it is, doesn't seem something the good guys would do.

Now I think if would be better if it was more like the ending from that Batman movie with Schwarzenegger when Mr Freeze is defeated but willing gives the medicine for Alfred.

Or something like that.
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Old July 14 2014, 05:21 PM   #4
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Re: violence

I think Star Trek isn't violent enough. It's all too clean, in an Eminiar-type way.
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Old July 14 2014, 05:29 PM   #5
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Re: violence

TWOK was more violent
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Old July 14 2014, 07:47 PM   #6
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Re: violence

Khan 2.0 wrote: View Post
TWOK was more violent
Indeed. I forgot about poor Preston and the corpses in the space lab.

I still believe this JJ-Trek is too violent for my tastes, but now I don't know why.
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Old July 14 2014, 08:13 PM   #7
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Re: violence

TWOK actually shows relatively little violence apart from a few burns and corpses resulting from its space duels; likewise Preston and the others die offscreen, it's just their bodies and a bit of blood that are found. I certainly wouldn't rank anything in TWOK on a level of straight-up violence with Khan crushing Marcus' skull. Really its most disturbing scene on a body-horror level is Khan implanting the eels in Chekov and Tyrell.

That said, as skull-crushings in film and television go, that scene is well behind Game of Thrones or Blade Runner. So... I guess that's something? I think it's maybe more problematic that having your bad guy crush somebody's skull with their bare hands to demonstrate their bad-assery is turning into, like, A Thing, which doesn't need to happen.
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Old July 14 2014, 08:21 PM   #8
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Re: violence

Even when angry, Cumber Khan lacks the necessary passion and is too glacial.

Montalban Khan would've just slapped Carol Marcus, to get her out of his way. Considered making it up her later with a dinner, a gift, and banging her brains out in a different way to her Father.

I was actually more disturbed by him breaking her leg, than the skull crushing that followed to be honest. He could've basically shoved her aside, into the nearest wall and unconsciousness.
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Old July 14 2014, 08:54 PM   #9
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Re: violence

Personally, growing up and still to this day, I've found the concept of being vaporized by a phaser or disruptor far more disturbing than any of the more conventional deaths we've seen in Trek. The poor innocent in TWoK who got vaporized by Terrel when he was aiming at David Marcus always bothered me in particular as a kid. It was a pretty horrifying image of him screaming away into nonexistence, without even so much as a body left behind for his friends to mourn over.

It just makes me think of how many (albeit fictional) people must have been vaporized in various criminal or intelligence operations where friends and family left behind have no idea what ever happened to them, which can often be more emotionally traumatizing than getting a sense of closure by at least knowing if they're dead or not.
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Old July 14 2014, 09:02 PM   #10
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Re: violence

There has been PG and PG-13 type violence in all Trek, movies or TV. But it's all relative. Action adventure needs some violence, but they're not going for an R rating, either.

In TUC we see Klingons being shot by phasers with their blood going all over the place. That it's comically pink doesn't make it any less violent or graphic for the rating. As others have said, TWOK was quite violent. Again, it's all PG or PG-13 level stuff, though.

I don't think any of it was gratuitous in any of the movies, either. Therefore, it honestly doesn't bother me. It is action-adventure, after all. Beings are going to die sometimes terrible deaths. This isn't Disney's "Bambi", after all. Oh. Wait.
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Old July 14 2014, 09:05 PM   #11
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Re: violence

I still find bone-crushing physicality more disturbing, but that's not to say vaporization isn't.
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Old July 14 2014, 09:08 PM   #12
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Re: violence

Shat Happens wrote: View Post
I don't like the scene where Khan crushed Marcus' skull with his bare hands -- and in front of his daughter whose leg he just had broken too. With disgusting sounds.

Was it needed? I am sure not. . .

But I'm just one guy.
I don't know. I was sort of surprised that there wasn't a Scanners style head-bursting scene. To me, it felt like a big gore scene was intended to go in there but never shot. Stomping Carol's leg seemed unnecessary though.

But I'm just another guy too.
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Old July 14 2014, 09:14 PM   #13
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Re: violence

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Personally, growing up and still to this day, I've found the concept of being vaporized by a phaser or disruptor far more disturbing than any of the more conventional deaths we've seen in Trek. The poor innocent in TWoK who got vaporized by Terrel when he was aiming at David Marcus always bothered me in particular as a kid. It was a pretty horrifying image of him screaming away into nonexistence, without even so much as a body left behind for his friends to mourn over.

It just makes me think of how many (albeit fictional) people must have been vaporized in various criminal or intelligence operations where friends and family left behind have no idea what ever happened to them, which can often be more emotionally traumatizing than getting a sense of closure by at least knowing if they're dead or not.
Agreed. In "The Most Toys" the collector had a weapon that was supposed to vaporize, but also create an agonizing death. Vaporization didn't look instantaneous when the shape-shifter was killed in TUC, either.

Let's face it, there really is no good way to go. The scene in Trek that sticks with me most is the woman on the Kelvin being sucked out into space.

Let's not forget six billion Vulcans dying, too. Even if we didn't see it, imagine the horror going on on the planet. Death by black hole.
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Old July 14 2014, 09:18 PM   #14
Locutus of Bored
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Re: violence

BigJake wrote: View Post
I still find bone-crushing physicality more disturbing, but that's not to say vaporization isn't.
Oh, my post wasn't meant to be a counter-argument to yours, I just was pointing out that vaporizations have always bothered me more than conventional deaths. When Riker (unnecessarily, IMO) vaporized that terrorist lady that always bugged me too.

Franklin wrote: View Post
In "The Most Toys" the collector had a weapon that was supposed to vaporize, but also create an agonizing death. Vaporization didn't look instantaneous when the shape-shifter was killed in TUC, either.
Yeah, in both TWoK and TUC the victims seemed to fade away in a second or two with a horrifying scream.
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Old July 14 2014, 09:20 PM   #15
Ryan8bit
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Re: violence

Franklin wrote: View Post
In "The Most Toys" the collector had a weapon that was supposed to vaporize, but also create an agonizing death.
I wonder, wouldn't something like that smell really bad? Even though that's one of the moments that stands out as being somewhat shocking, it still strikes me as rather sanitized.
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