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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old July 5 2014, 04:06 PM   #31
shivkala
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Re: The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
KaineMorrison wrote: View Post
Sorry guys. I was trying something new. I will try not to create more uninspired Threads.
I'm just trying to be an active member.
It's fine, nothing to be sorry about. Just that, well, TNG didn't come up with the notion of season-end cliffhangers.
Right. But the rest of your premise was fine, so it doesn't destroy the thread. If anything, it stimulates discussion, because people here (and by here, I mean 'The Internet' ) just love to talk about how wrong someone is, too.
Then, in the spirit of this thread, I hate that Star Trek created the idea of a fanbase that loves to point out that people are wrong.

And now, I eagerly await everyone telling me how wrong I am!
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Old July 5 2014, 04:09 PM   #32
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Re: The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
"I hate that Star Trek created ____" the TNG Romulans. If the revamp looked cool and badassed, I'd be a fan of this Vulcan offshoot.
Just a look at "Unification" and the lack of prosthetics applied to Mr. Nimoy just reveals that it was a lame idea. Vulcans and Romulans were biologically related, just separated by 5,000 years or so and according to Spock's appearance in aforementioned episode there still must have been plenty of Romulans looking like Vulcans.

Bob
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Old July 5 2014, 04:35 PM   #33
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Re: The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

I hate how TNG dumbed down Trek. Worst were the redesigned Romulans, insulting viewer intelligence by assuming we are too stupid to differentiate them from Vulcans without a new bumpy forehead.

I hate that TNG moved away from colourful alien designs (see: TOS, TMP, STIV) and kept to formulaic bumpy forehead human aliens.

I hate all the babytalk technobabble which TNG introduced into the Trekverse. Whoever thought it warranted a place beyond background chatter was very very wrong. I'd often wonder how much shorter the episodes would be if it was cut, trimming "quantum phase scanner" into "scanner", "tri-axlating energy signature" with "energy signature" etc.

I hate that TNG introduced us to "evolved humans" of the 24th century who have no interpersonal conflict and look down their noses at the rest of the galaxy (thankfully this angle was mostly dropped from DS9, Voyager and the TNG movies)
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Old July 5 2014, 05:23 PM   #34
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Re: The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Now I'm quite familiar with "Who shot J.R.?", but were season cliffhangers really all that common between that and BOBW a decade later? I honestly don't know because I wasn't watching a lot of TV in the 80s. It seems to me that BOBW certainly started the trend for itself and subsequent Trek shows, and through that the other genre shows that popped up in TNG's wake.
Depends on the genre, possibly. Cliffhangers may not have been routine on sci-fi shows (which is kinda peculiar considering they were a staple of "Buck Rogers" and "Flash Gordon" back in the day), but prime-time soaps like "Dallas" and "Dynasty" and "Falcon Crest" and so on were all about their serialized plot twists and cliffhangers.

Star Trek, and genre shows in general, were a bit late to the party there . . . .
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Old July 5 2014, 05:31 PM   #35
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Re: The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Now I'm quite familiar with "Who shot J.R.?", but were season cliffhangers really all that common between that and BOBW a decade later? I honestly don't know because I wasn't watching a lot of TV in the 80s. It seems to me that BOBW certainly started the trend for itself and subsequent Trek shows, and through that the other genre shows that popped up in TNG's wake.
Depends on the genre, possibly. Cliffhangers may not have been routine on sci-fi shows (which is kinda peculiar considering they were a staple of "Buck Rogers" and "Flash Gordon" back in the day), but prime-time soaps like "Dallas" and "Dynasty" and "Falcon Crest" and so on were all about their serialized plot twists and cliffhangers.

Star Trek, and genre shows in general, were a bit late to the party there . . . .
Wiki says Soap was the first primetime American show to use a cliffhanger season ending.
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Old July 5 2014, 05:42 PM   #36
Greg Cox
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Re: The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Now I'm quite familiar with "Who shot J.R.?", but were season cliffhangers really all that common between that and BOBW a decade later? I honestly don't know because I wasn't watching a lot of TV in the 80s. It seems to me that BOBW certainly started the trend for itself and subsequent Trek shows, and through that the other genre shows that popped up in TNG's wake.
Depends on the genre, possibly. Cliffhangers may not have been routine on sci-fi shows (which is kinda peculiar considering they were a staple of "Buck Rogers" and "Flash Gordon" back in the day), but prime-time soaps like "Dallas" and "Dynasty" and "Falcon Crest" and so on were all about their serialized plot twists and cliffhangers.

Star Trek, and genre shows in general, were a bit late to the party there . . . .
Wiki says Soap was the first primetime American show to use a cliffhanger season ending.
Interesting. I was wondering about "Peyton Place," but wasn't motivated to look it up.
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Old July 5 2014, 05:52 PM   #37
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Re: The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

CrazyMatt wrote: View Post
RandyS wrote: View Post
CrazyMatt wrote: View Post

No, but Picard shot JR.
No, that was Natima Lang, who was Tasha Yar's aunt.
And she was also Harlan Ellison's sister, I believe.
Now, that was never actually confirmed...Harlan was asked if she was, at an old "Chico and the Man" Convention in Schenectady, but he only shook his head and said "F-ing Roddenberry"...
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Old July 5 2014, 05:55 PM   #38
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Re: The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

Suggestion to OP: change the name of your Thread to, "Discussion of the Origin of Cliffhangers", or some such...

...just a thought!...
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Old July 5 2014, 06:17 PM   #39
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Re: The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I hate all the babytalk technobabble which TNG introduced into the Trekverse. Whoever thought it warranted a place beyond background chatter was very very wrong. I'd often wonder how much shorter the episodes would be if it was cut, trimming "quantum phase scanner" into "scanner", "tri-axlating energy signature" with "energy signature" etc.
In fact, I agree with all your points, but yes the technobabbling is really not an improvement. I'm a fan of Geordi/Data's tandem, but not when they're in the Scotty/Spock position. Scotty has always been intelligible and Spock lines wheren't full of mystical physics. It doesn't mean it was realistic, but at least the actors and the viewers are able to understand what they're talking about.

Somes week ago, I rewatched The Drumhead between two discs of TOS season 3.
DATA: We have made micro-tomographic analyses of the dilithium chamber, the hatch mounting, the blast pattern from the explosion.
LAFORGE: We did mass spectrometer readings of the residue for chemical content, sifted through the debris for bomb fragments
[...]
PICARD: There are submicron fractures in the metal casing.
LAFORGE: That's right. A breakdown of the atomic cohesive structure.
[...]
DATA: Those fractures suggest nothing more than simple neutron fatigue. I would speculate that when the engine was last inspected at McKinley station, the hatch casing was replaced with one which had an undetectable defect.
Spock and Scotty would have simply said there was a microscopical breach in the structure. And Picard himself plays that game...we're far from Kirk who doesn't know quadrotriticale despite he's a cultured guy.
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Old July 5 2014, 06:21 PM   #40
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Re: The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

The problem with this thread is that almost anything we think Trek created will probably turn out to have an earlier antecedent. Trek's importance lies more in popularizing tropes and concepts that already existed. For instance, it didn't invent warp propulsion, subspace, tractor beams, deflector shields, teleportation, alternate universes, non-interference directives, etc. At best it lays claim to certain specific terminology like "phaser," "photon torpedo," and "tricorder," but equivalent technologies had existed in earlier fiction.


Greg Cox wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
I hate that Star Trek invented running two spinoffs of the same series at the same time....
Star Trek didn't even come close to inventing this. "All in the Family," "The Mary Tyler Moore Show," and "Happy Days" beat "Star Trek" at this by at least a decade, probably more.
And before that, The Danny Thomas Show spun off The Andy Griffith Show, which spun off Gomer Pyle, USMC. And there was Paul Henning's trilogy of rural shows, Petticoat Junction, Green Acres, and The Beverly Hillbillies, which shared a common universe. The Man from UNCLE spun off The Girl from UNCLE. The Dukes of Hazzard had a short-lived spinoff called Enos during its run (which I believe was the debut of TNG composer Dennis McCarthy!). And there's the curious case of William Dozier's Batman and The Green Hornet, which treated one another as fictional shows within their respective realities, yet then had a crossover episode!


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Such a missed opportunity that the only refit Connies we ever saw were Enterprise and Enterprise-A. Just because the Enterprise A was retired, doesn't necessarily mean ALL Constitution Class ships, especially newly-build ones modeled on the refit design, needed to be retired. They may not necessarily have been the backbone of Starfleet by the TNG era, but if the Miranda Classes can serve side-by-side the Excelsior, Galaxy, Nebula, Ambassador, or even the Oberth classes, why not the Constitution refit styles?
The Trek producers seemed to want each "hero" ship to be essentially unique. Not only did we rarely see a Connie in the modern shows, but DS9's Dominion War fleets almost never used an Intrepid-class or Sovereign-class ship. The only reason they used an Intrepid-class ship in "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" is because most of the episode was set on the ship and it was cheaper to use the standing Voyager sets than to build sets for a different Starfleet class. I figure the only reason they used so many Galaxy-class ships in DS9 is because the Ent-D had been superseded by the E at that point, so there'd be no confusion.
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Old July 5 2014, 06:52 PM   #41
KaineMorrison
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Re: The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

Armored Saint wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I hate all the babytalk technobabble which TNG introduced into the Trekverse. Whoever thought it warranted a place beyond background chatter was very very wrong. I'd often wonder how much shorter the episodes would be if it was cut, trimming "quantum phase scanner" into "scanner", "tri-axlating energy signature" with "energy signature" etc.
In fact, I agree with all your points, but yes the technobabbling is really not an improvement. I'm a fan of Geordi/Data's tandem, but not when they're in the Scotty/Spock position. Scotty has always been intelligible and Spock lines wheren't full of mystical physics. It doesn't mean it was realistic, but at least the actors and the viewers are able to understand what they're talking about.

Somes week ago, I rewatched The Drumhead between two discs of TOS season 3.
DATA: We have made micro-tomographic analyses of the dilithium chamber, the hatch mounting, the blast pattern from the explosion.
LAFORGE: We did mass spectrometer readings of the residue for chemical content, sifted through the debris for bomb fragments
[...]
PICARD: There are submicron fractures in the metal casing.
LAFORGE: That's right. A breakdown of the atomic cohesive structure.
[...]
DATA: Those fractures suggest nothing more than simple neutron fatigue. I would speculate that when the engine was last inspected at McKinley station, the hatch casing was replaced with one which had an undetectable defect.
Spock and Scotty would have simply said there was a microscopical breach in the structure. And Picard himself plays that game...we're far from Kirk who doesn't know quadrotriticale despite he's a cultured guy.
The Bolded and underlined are the only words I don't recognize or understand, and I'm too lazy to look them up right now.
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Old July 5 2014, 06:56 PM   #42
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Re: The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

I hate that I can no longer remember what ships are/were what class. Though this is due to me being away from Trek for so very long.
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Old July 5 2014, 07:03 PM   #43
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Re: The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

I hate that I can no longer list every episode title from memory.
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Old July 5 2014, 07:05 PM   #44
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Re: The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

Melakon wrote: View Post
I hate that I can no longer list every episode title from memory.
Every Episode? Or just Every TNG Episode?
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Old July 5 2014, 07:12 PM   #45
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Re: The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

Every. Once the Animated Series began, I lost track.
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