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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 5 2014, 06:49 PM   #16
HIjol
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

I liked the movie well enough, but casting F. Murray Abraham in the role of Ru'afo just did not sit well with me...he is an incredible talent, and I love his work, but not in this role...
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Old July 5 2014, 07:10 PM   #17
Lance
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

BillJ already completely nailed it in the very first reply of the thread:

BillJ wrote: View Post
Ditch the S'ona. Made the film Starfleet vs. Starfleet (maybe Picard vs. Riker). Return to the concept that the planet was chock full of minerals that was the basis of the Federation's medical technology. Kill off one of the characters due to not having access to the mineral.
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Old July 5 2014, 07:17 PM   #18
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Things that could have been left out.

All of Data's interactions with the little boy, I know that some fans enjoyed it, but I found it basically tiresome.

The manual joy stick on the bridge. Just can't find a single realistic reason for it.

The boobs joke, certain don't have Data repeat it to Worf.

Admittedly it's not TWOK, that said I like this movie more than many do, on the most part I'd leave it alone. If you change too much of it, it would be possible to make it considerably worse.

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Old July 5 2014, 08:00 PM   #19
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
1. Someone should have controlled Spiner's influence on the script.
The bigger problem was Stewart, who got his Associate Producer title after First Contact made bank, and then he just got completely schizophrenic about Picard's character -- he wanted it to be a philosophical story, then when he got that he decided that Picard couldn't be weak so he needed to be an action hero, then when he got that he felt that he needed to have a romantic plot, and when he got the romance subplot he said it was just too much.

Let the actors act and let the writers write (Spiner having a favored-nation contract meant that he got to impact the story of Nemesis).
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Old July 6 2014, 02:42 AM   #20
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Timby wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
1. Someone should have controlled Spiner's influence on the script.
The bigger problem was Stewart, who got his Associate Producer title after First Contact made bank, and then he just got completely schizophrenic about Picard's character -- he wanted it to be a philosophical story, then when he got that he decided that Picard couldn't be weak so he needed to be an action hero, then when he got that he felt that he needed to have a romantic plot, and when he got the romance subplot he said it was just too much.

Let the actors act and let the writers write (Spiner having a favored-nation contract meant that he got to impact the story of Nemesis).
So it wasn't Spiner's fault.
I just hated 'Data' in NEM. It was just too much crazy for me. Just awful, awful. The little boy reminded me of Boxy in original BSG or Anakin in Star Wars 1.

I'd pick 'Data' in NEM any day (Post buggy ride).
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Old July 6 2014, 03:34 AM   #21
Lance
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Timby wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
1. Someone should have controlled Spiner's influence on the script.
The bigger problem was Stewart, who got his Associate Producer title after First Contact made bank, and then he just got completely schizophrenic about Picard's character -- he wanted it to be a philosophical story, then when he got that he decided that Picard couldn't be weak so he needed to be an action hero, then when he got that he felt that he needed to have a romantic plot, and when he got the romance subplot he said it was just too much.

Let the actors act and let the writers write (Spiner having a favored-nation contract meant that he got to impact the story of Nemesis).
For those of you who haven't read it yet, what Timby says here is pretty much the crux of what Michael Piller's book, FADE IN, actually says about the writing process behind the movie. It was Patrick Stewart whose influence on Insurrection was overpowering. Piller doesn't actually say that's a bad thing either, he says it was his job is to keep his star happy and that's why he made the rewrites he did in order to accomodate everything Stewart said he wanted, but nevertheless Stewart made a number of suggestions which basically over-took the story as originally written and severely dampened its impact in a number of ways.

I tend to think of INS as being Stewart's one "primma-donna" moment on Star Trek. He was (and is) a very giving actor, but that was the movie where, flush from the success of First Contact, he really weilded power. So he finally got all of those things he said he'd wanted for seven years of the TV show. What Stewart couldn't see was that his suggestions were unbalancing the movie.

Spiner did give notes on INS too, but most of those were pointing out the logic problems of the story (and not, in fact, related to making Data more central to the plot -- that was one of Stewart's ideas). In fact Piller goes as far as to suggest that Spiner only gave sound advice and that he wishes he'd listened to it and ammended the story accordingly.

The studio heads also gave notes about the logic problems, but again Berman/Piller opted not to take those notes on board. So we got the movie we got despite at least two seperate parties pointing out significant problems with the script.
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Old July 6 2014, 04:07 AM   #22
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

They should've followed the suggestions of the studio and Spiner. Stewart, as others have pointed out, finally got to have influence in his character and ended up driving the movie into the ground.

I would've preferred a Starfleet v Starfleet story, instead of hamfisting some alien race that no one gives a shit about into it. Hell, it would've made more sense, with the Enterprise being divided as Picard leads the group trying to keep Starfleet out of the Ba'ku, while Riker or Worf adamantly defend Starfleet and take their side.
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Old July 6 2014, 04:10 AM   #23
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
MikeS wrote: View Post
For what it's worth, I love INS just as it is. The one thing I'd do is jettison Worf. He'd moved on to DS9 and the producers should have gotten over it.
Same here. Personally, I would have brought in a new female security chief (she wouldn't have had many lines, but she would have been Worf's replacement in both Insurrection and Nemesis).
Imagine boobs on Michael Horton. (For having not many lines, he hasn't manly lines, he isn't even there at senior staff meeting.)
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Old July 6 2014, 04:15 AM   #24
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Lance wrote: View Post
I tend to think of INS as being Stewart's one "primma-donna" moment on Star Trek.
More of a "primma-donna" moment than the dune buggy movie?

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Old July 6 2014, 04:17 AM   #25
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

MikeS wrote: View Post

For what it's worth, I love INS just as it is. The one thing I'd do is jettison Worf. He'd moved on to DS9 and the producers should have gotten over it.
His role in First Contact made sense, having been evacuated from the Defiant, but, his role in Insurrection and Nemesis seemed to exist solely because they needed to have the whole cast together. They should've at least given a reason why Worf was on the Enterprise instead of being on DS9.
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Old July 6 2014, 04:30 AM   #26
Lance
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
I tend to think of INS as being Stewart's one "primma-donna" moment on Star Trek.
More of a "primma-donna" moment than the dune buggy movie?

Fair point. But to be fair the Dune Buggy was but one single sequence, whereas with INS he 'got it his way' for an entire movie!
Last Redshirt wrote: View Post
MikeS wrote: View Post

For what it's worth, I love INS just as it is. The one thing I'd do is jettison Worf. He'd moved on to DS9 and the producers should have gotten over it.
His role in First Contact made sense, having been evacuated from the Defiant, but, his role in Insurrection and Nemesis seemed to exist solely because they needed to have the whole cast together. They should've at least given a reason why Worf was on the Enterprise instead of being on DS9.
I can distinctly remember Michael Dorn giving an interview for the official Star Trek magazine around the time he joined DS9, saying he agreed to come back and do more television on the proviso that he wouldn't be needed in the movies as well. I can only assume when the call came from his agent offering X amount of dollars he found himself changing his mind...
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Old July 6 2014, 05:06 AM   #27
GalaxyX
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Lance wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
I tend to think of INS as being Stewart's one "primma-donna" moment on Star Trek.
More of a "primma-donna" moment than the dune buggy movie?

Fair point. But to be fair the Dune Buggy was but one single sequence, whereas with INS he 'got it his way' for an entire movie!
I don't know about that. Wasn't the whole idea of a Picard clone who had it bad in life Stewart's idea?
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Old July 6 2014, 05:38 AM   #28
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Destructor wrote: View Post
3. What else should they have done? I think they had the core of a good movie in there, but it just fell sideways a bit. I think they should have a. dropped the Anij character; b. dropped Data's stupid subplot with the kid; c. I'm not sure they needed the 'holoship planning to take everyone away' element of the story- they could have moved directly to 'Federation admiral plotting to steal the radiation wholesale.
This is minor and has been mentioned elsewhere, but someone should say it once here:
How about featuring an actual insurrection?

INSURRECTION
From www.merriam-webster.com:
a usually violent attempt to take control of a government
or
an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government
From dictionary.reference.com:

an act or instance of rising in revolt, rebellion, or resistance against civil authority or an established government.
From www.thefreedictionary.com:

The act or an instance of open revolt against civil authority or a constituted government.
Exactly who is revolting in this movie?

And if anyone wants to say "the Son'a": well, I beat you to it.
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Old July 6 2014, 05:48 AM   #29
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

The best improvement that could've been made to Insurrection would've been for the film not to have been made.
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Old July 6 2014, 06:16 AM   #30
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Lance wrote: View Post

I can distinctly remember Michael Dorn giving an interview for the official Star Trek magazine around the time he joined DS9, saying he agreed to come back and do more television on the proviso that he wouldn't be needed in the movies as well. I can only assume when the call came from his agent offering X amount of dollars he found himself changing his mind...
I mean, they could've had a perfect reason for him being there. Have him be on the ship in Insurrection because the Defiant got ordered to the Briar Patch and Sisko put Worf in charge. Nemesis, have him be on board as a guest, for one last hurrah with the old crew, or because of Troi's wedding and he's touring the ship and they get the alert to go to the Neutral Zone.
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