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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 5 2014, 12:44 AM   #136
Ar-Pharazon
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

^ If that's the case, Enterprise-D had 7 seasons to become a character.

I know I had to grow to like the D.
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Old July 5 2014, 01:59 AM   #137
trevanian
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

Shat Happens wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
In 2009, the nuE was ugly, violated canon and was too big.
AND was built on Earth. Dont forget it was built on Earth.
I'd like to be able to forget that.
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Old July 5 2014, 02:12 AM   #138
Lt. LaForge
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

The E had plenty of character, especially in Nemesis. I love the D more, but the E is classic too.
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Old July 5 2014, 02:26 AM   #139
austen_pierce
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

trevanian wrote: View Post
Shat Happens wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
In 2009, the nuE was ugly, violated canon and was too big.
AND was built on Earth. Dont forget it was built on Earth.
I'd like to be able to forget that.
I would have like to see more. But then, I am a starship porn junkie, and seeing the new E pieced together (anywhere) would have had me drooling.
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Old July 5 2014, 02:35 AM   #140
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

trevanian wrote: View Post
Shat Happens wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
In 2009, the nuE was ugly, violated canon and was too big.
AND was built on Earth. Dont forget it was built on Earth.
I'd like to be able to forget that.
Your brain must have exploded when she rose out of the ocean at the beginning of Star Trek Into Darkness!
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Old July 5 2014, 04:05 AM   #141
Lance
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

Lt. LaForge wrote: View Post
The E had plenty of character, especially in Nemesis.
We will just have to agree to disagree I think. In First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis, I've just never "felt" it had any character, I'm afraid. It's a weak connect for me.

I'd love to have fallen in love the Enterprise-E, but I just couldn't.

It isn't simply 7 years of Ent-D vs 3 movies of Ent-E either. I find Voyager just as lacking in character despite its seven years on television, I never loved that ship either.

1701, 1701-refit, 1701-D and the Defiant are all characterful ships inside and out. I adore them. But Voyager and the 1701-E just leave me cold.Their designs just don't "do it" for me. Something's missing, some crucial element, some sense of feeling.

A gut reaction, but an honest one.
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Old July 5 2014, 04:51 AM   #142
C.E. Evans
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

I think there was a general emotional disconnect with all of the ships after TOS. IMO, the only reason why the original Enterprise seemed like a character was because Kirk and Scotty were totally crazy about her (the former was very possessive, while the latter was very protective). Every hero ship after her, though, seemed to be treated by their crews as merely vehicles to get them from one place to another.
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Last edited by C.E. Evans; July 5 2014 at 11:26 AM. Reason: can't type
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Old July 5 2014, 04:55 AM   #143
LMFAOschwarz
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

I have to say that I didn't exactly warm up to the Enteprise E either...but I think it might have had just as much to do with the new 'everything else', just as much as with the new ship.

The new, color-starved uniforms for one. Why the Federation would, in effect, borrow swatches for their new color palate from the borg is beyond me. Also, from a production standpoint, it's harder to contrast your heroes with a deadly, diametrically-opposite foe when they both, for all intents and purposes, buy their clothes from the same retail outlet. I'm almost surprised they don't run into each other more often..like from the opposite sides of a spinner rack.
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Old July 5 2014, 08:52 AM   #144
Cyke101
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

Lance wrote: View Post
Lt. LaForge wrote: View Post
The E had plenty of character, especially in Nemesis.
We will just have to agree to disagree I think. In First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis, I've just never "felt" it had any character, I'm afraid. It's a weak connect for me.
That Picard was so nonchalant about blowing her up after only a year of service was fairly jarring for me. Yes, I get that it was integral to the mission to defeating the Borg, but he never really gave it a second thought once he was convinced and even kind of joked about it. Contrast that to TSFS, when Kirk is genuinely saddened by the realization of what he did to his old girl, even asking Bones, "What have I done?"

If the ship is a character and you're about to kill off a character from your team, at least have some kind of remorse about it.

(Oddly, Picard acted the same way when the E-D went down, even tossing aside a priceless archaeological artifact. He's had that ship, the pride and joy of Starfleet, for 7 years. These things are big, serve important strategic functions, have saved your lives every other week, and has been home to you, your crew, and their families that whole time. Some sentimental value must be expected.)
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Old July 5 2014, 11:52 AM   #145
grendelsbayne
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
Lt. LaForge wrote: View Post
The E had plenty of character, especially in Nemesis.
We will just have to agree to disagree I think. In First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis, I've just never "felt" it had any character, I'm afraid. It's a weak connect for me.
That Picard was so nonchalant about blowing her up after only a year of service was fairly jarring for me. Yes, I get that it was integral to the mission to defeating the Borg, but he never really gave it a second thought once he was convinced and even kind of joked about it. Contrast that to TSFS, when Kirk is genuinely saddened by the realization of what he did to his old girl, even asking Bones, "What have I done?"

If the ship is a character and you're about to kill off a character from your team, at least have some kind of remorse about it.

(Oddly, Picard acted the same way when the E-D went down, even tossing aside a priceless archaeological artifact. He's had that ship, the pride and joy of Starfleet, for 7 years. These things are big, serve important strategic functions, have saved your lives every other week, and has been home to you, your crew, and their families that whole time. Some sentimental value must be expected.)
Maybe Picard just doesn't think the same way Kirk does. Also, in FC at least, he was so messed up that treated his own crewmen's deaths with even less remorse.

On a more general note, while I agree that the way the crew (and, incidentally, the filmmaker, as well) treats the ship is of paramount importance to the concept of succesfully making the ship 'another character', I have to say that this entire discussion of different ship designs having 'character' or 'soul' in and of themselves is pure bunk. Every post I see about this concept basically boils down to 'I just didn't like this design'. That's not 'bad design', it's plain old personal preference.
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Old July 5 2014, 12:34 PM   #146
Ithekro
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

One thing the NCC-1701 had over all the others was that it had a history before the show started. The USS Enterprise was old when Star Trek was new. She was the old girl that had the reputation for getting people home. She was the old girl that was touchy and needed a lot of care to keep her running. She was the one that was jury rigged through every section to not only keep her running, but also so she could run circles around anyone else in the fleet. She had a history and Kirk and his crew responded to that.

All the other ships in Star Trek are brand new when we see them.
The USS Enterprise-D is on her first mission under out to Farpoint Station.
The USS Enterprise-E has just finished a year of shakedown cruises to end up patrolling the Neutral Zone.
The USS Voyager has been sent to Deep Space Nine to find some Maquis.
USS Defiant is just out of the shipyards for testing her overpowered systems against the Dominion.
The NX-01 Enterprise is being launched early to deliver a Klingon back to the Homeworld.
The 2009 USS Enterprise is being commissioned early to respond to a destress signal from Vulcan.
They are all new ships.

The only one that is not new aside from the NCC-1701 is Deep Space Nine itself. The old Cardassian station has character to it, but it is an ugly character that tends to turn on the Federation and Bajoran crew until very late one when they've rebuilt it with Federation systems and weapons. And even then it still is ugly as it doesn't save them all the time, but hinders them at points.

So having a history to your ship, and having it be old tends to give it more character as the crew respond to it in some respect. Take the Millenium Falcon from Star Wars. It is an old ship and has a massive amount of personality. Or the Battlestar Galactica. Again and old ship to the point where the crew respond to her in human like terms.

That is probably what was missing fom the later Star Treks. The variable being the NCC-1701-A. She does have a personality due to have Scotty treats her, but it isn't as much as the original since Kirk is not as invested in the two films she stars in. In both Star Trek V and Star Trek VI, the crew seems like they want to be someplace else. They looked happy on arrival in Star Trek IV, of course the events of Star Trek II the crew seem downright happy to be on the old Enterprise.
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Old July 5 2014, 01:03 PM   #147
StarMan
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

I loved the first shot of the E in First Contact. It became my favorite class of ship.

Insurrection onwards, however, something felt off. Perhaps the luster of being the new ship on the block and being well shot by ILM had something to do with my original enamor.
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Old July 5 2014, 01:07 PM   #148
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Contrast that to TSFS, when Kirk is genuinely saddened by the realization of what he did to his old girl, even asking Bones, "What have I done?"
I always felt that comment was more due to the fact that Kirk had outright murdered the Klingon crew, and less about the destruction of the ship. He tried to save Kruge initially too.
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Old July 5 2014, 01:16 PM   #149
BillJ
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

NewHorizon wrote: View Post
Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Contrast that to TSFS, when Kirk is genuinely saddened by the realization of what he did to his old girl, even asking Bones, "What have I done?"
I always felt that comment was more due to the fact that Kirk had outright murdered the Klingon crew, and less about the destruction of the ship. He tried to save Kruge initially too.
I don't think so based on what we've seen of the Kirk character. His attachment to the Enterprise. He probably felt that he had killed a close friend.
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Old July 5 2014, 01:29 PM   #150
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

BillJ wrote: View Post
NewHorizon wrote: View Post
Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Contrast that to TSFS, when Kirk is genuinely saddened by the realization of what he did to his old girl, even asking Bones, "What have I done?"
I always felt that comment was more due to the fact that Kirk had outright murdered the Klingon crew, and less about the destruction of the ship. He tried to save Kruge initially too.
I don't think so based on what we've seen of the Kirk character. His attachment to the Enterprise. He probably felt that he had killed a close friend.

Agreed! The Klingons just murdered David, and Kirk had no problem kicking Kruge in the face off a cliff and into a river of molten lava.

No, I think Kirk was lamenting the destruction of the Enterprise, something he considered the embodiment of his career and an extension of himself.


Timby wrote: View Post
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I'll take the Abramsverse version over the 'E', everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.
I also like the Abramsverse version of the Enterprise....
The Abrams Enterprise would be a thousand times better if the neck were moved forward. I did a quick and dirty Photoshop of it a while back just to illustrate:

Well, that's a start, at least. It does look a lot better to me.

I never minded the nacelles as much as the secondary hull as it appeared in the movie. It's all a matter of opinion, and your mileage may vary but to me Abramsprise has got to be one of the ugliest Star Trek ships, EVER. I would take Enterprise-E, even if it isn't t he perfect ship, over that albatross ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!

Hopefully, Star Trek 3 (2016) will follow suit with Star Trek II TSFS and Generations, and we will see the Abramsprise destroyed, and the crew issued a new ship in the next sequel, and hopefully a much better looking Enterprise.

Like I said, the top view of the Enterprise E looks great, its looking up at the underside that it looks less glamorous, but at least it is in proportion and sleek looking. Abramsprise just simply is ugly. The only good thing about it is at least Abramsprise kept the classic saucer similar to the TMP refit. The rest of the ship is just, BLAH!


In the "corrected" pic, the hull is a tad too long and skinny though, and to even it out, the nacelles need to come forward by at least a third.

And the addition of twin torpedo bays at the base of the neck joining the primary and secondary hulls like the TMP refit wouldn't hurt, either.

Last edited by TheSubCommander; July 5 2014 at 01:56 PM.
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