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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 3 2014, 06:08 PM   #16
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Nemesis: why is Geordi so impressed with "normal" vision?

Armored Saint wrote: View Post
alpha_leonis wrote: View Post
Comparing this to Geordi, who can see a much wider range of the spectrum than most humans, due to his Visor.
Sir, Lieutenant La Forge's eyes are far superior to human biological eyes. True? Then why are not all human officers required to have their eyes replaced with cybernetic implants?

You can move really fast when you drive a car, but I suppose you would really sad to lose your ability to walk.
But we're discussing a person who was born without legs and could never walk in the first place. What is there to be sad about?
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Old July 4 2014, 02:11 PM   #17
starburst
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Re: Nemesis: why is Geordi so impressed with "normal" vision?

Geordi says "I've never seen a sunrise. At least not the way you see them." in the film so while he has the ability to see as his parents, friends, family and crew mates do he wanted to take the opportunity to see it for himself.

I'm sure with his VISOR or implants a sunrise is an impressive sight, but if you have never seen one the 'conventional' way wouldn't you be excited to experience it for yourself?
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Old July 4 2014, 02:53 PM   #18
Timelord Victorious
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Re: Nemesis: why is Geordi so impressed with "normal" vision?

What was presented to us during TNG as Geordie-vision never seemed right.

The way it's been described was, that He sees all we see and then some.

So the way I imagine it is, that he sees the entire visual spectrum but in a condensed way. The blue side of the spectrum shifted towards red and the red toward blue to fit in the wider range of ultraviolet, infrared, etc.
Or at least that's how it should have been presented.
A drawback could be that he loses spectrum resolution. Where we can differentiate between a ton of shades of green for example, to Geordie it would just be simply green.
Also "pixel" resolution might be a factor. He had the ability to zoom in at least with the implants, which is awesome, but the picture quality could be like VHS compared to 4K.
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Old July 6 2014, 12:59 AM   #19
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Re: Nemesis: why is Geordi so impressed with "normal" vision?

starburst wrote: View Post
Geordi says "I've never seen a sunrise. At least not the way you see them." in the film so while he has the ability to see as his parents, friends, family and crew mates do he wanted to take the opportunity to see it for himself.

I'm sure with his VISOR or implants a sunrise is an impressive sight, but if you have never seen one the 'conventional' way wouldn't you be excited to experience it for yourself?
That's exactly my point: Geordi has come to think of normal vision as being "the conventional way" and thinks of himself as an anomaly rather than establishing his own normalcy (e.g. normal for Geordi). He therefore has exactly the same problem as Data: his number one aspiration in life is to shed whatever characteristic sets him apart from other people -- even if those characteristics give him a huge personal advantage -- and become exactly like everyone else.

To nurture a deep yearning for conformity -- especially when that yearning manifests as a desire to eliminate traits that are not actually disadvantageous to you -- is NOT healthy behavior. It would be one thing if Geordi lost his sight at an early age and has been using the visor as a substitute, or if the visor wasn't as good as normal vision, or even if there was some kind of social stigma on Earth AGAINST blind people (at least then his desire would have some logical basis). But there isn't: it's a trait he was born with, adapted to, and has actually converted into something of an advantage. Wishing to eliminate that advantage in order to fit in to an imaginary standard of normalcy is, if nothing else, a severe character weakness.
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Old July 6 2014, 01:08 AM   #20
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Re: Nemesis: why is Geordi so impressed with "normal" vision?

Timelord Victorious wrote: View Post
What was presented to us during TNG as Geordie-vision never seemed right.

The way it's been described was, that He sees all we see and then some.

So the way I imagine it is, that he sees the entire visual spectrum but in a condensed way. The blue side of the spectrum shifted towards red and the red toward blue to fit in the wider range of ultraviolet, infrared, etc.
Or at least that's how it should have been presented.
A drawback could be that he loses spectrum resolution. Where we can differentiate between a ton of shades of green for example, to Geordie it would just be simply green.
Also "pixel" resolution might be a factor. He had the ability to zoom in at least with the implants, which is awesome, but the picture quality could be like VHS compared to 4K.
That would be to assume the VISOR has inferior visual quality as normal eyesight, which is 1) something Geordi has absolutely no way to know and no basis for comparison and 2) probably not the case, since we know his visor is capble of detecting microfractures and metal fatigue in solid objects and is pretty good at determining the details of those features.

More to the point: if Geordi actually wanted to see what normal people see, it wouldn't be hard to adjust his visor to only show him the visual spectrum within the normal (for a human, anyway) color spectrum. The only reason not to leave his VISOR on that setting all the time is because he would find that way too limiting and likes being able to see such a broad range of detail (who wouldn't?).

My personal theory? Geordi only uses his "I wanna see like you!" schtick to pick up women. Which is why the only time he really does this is when he's very VERY drunk (Naked Now) or putting on a show for Riker (Hide and Q, where he immediately uses it as an excuse to hit on Tasha).

And Insurrection is just Insurrection.
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Old July 6 2014, 10:04 AM   #21
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Re: Nemesis: why is Geordi so impressed with "normal" vision?

I always thought that it was weird that Geordie had a VISOR to begin with (being a fan of the "Six Million Dollar Man" television show). You would think that scientific and technological development would have enabled him to have ocular implants to begin with. Then again, IRL, we're talking about 1987's perspective on the future, and GR probably wanted something tangible in terms of having character with an obvious non-disability.
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Old July 6 2014, 11:38 AM   #22
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Re: Nemesis: why is Geordi so impressed with "normal" vision?

I suspect that it's a complicated psychological issue for Geordi, not a simple good/bad. For example, when it was brought up that he could take something for the pain that his VISOR caused, he refused on the basis that it would reduce what he saw.
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Old July 6 2014, 11:51 AM   #23
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Re: Nemesis: why is Geordi so impressed with "normal" vision?

Maybe his new ocular implants will prevent him from repeating the most embarrassing and unnecessary move in Trek History!

http://geordirollsunderthedoor.ytmnd.com/
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Old July 6 2014, 01:13 PM   #24
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Re: Nemesis: why is Geordi so impressed with "normal" vision?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Timelord Victorious wrote: View Post
What was presented to us during TNG as Geordie-vision never seemed right.

The way it's been described was, that He sees all we see and then some.

So the way I imagine it is, that he sees the entire visual spectrum but in a condensed way. The blue side of the spectrum shifted towards red and the red toward blue to fit in the wider range of ultraviolet, infrared, etc.
Or at least that's how it should have been presented.
A drawback could be that he loses spectrum resolution. Where we can differentiate between a ton of shades of green for example, to Geordie it would just be simply green.
Also "pixel" resolution might be a factor. He had the ability to zoom in at least with the implants, which is awesome, but the picture quality could be like VHS compared to 4K.
That would be to assume the VISOR has inferior visual quality as normal eyesight, which is 1) something Geordi has absolutely no way to know and no basis for comparison and 2) probably not the case, since we know his visor is capble of detecting microfractures and metal fatigue in solid objects and is pretty good at determining the details of those features.

More to the point: if Geordi actually wanted to see what normal people see, it wouldn't be hard to adjust his visor to only show him the visual spectrum within the normal (for a human, anyway) color spectrum. The only reason not to leave his VISOR on that setting all the time is because he would find that way too limiting and likes being able to see such a broad range of detail (who wouldn't?).


And Insurrection is just Insurrection.
Except i don't think he can turn off his vision/focus it exclusively in one spectrum. I mean he can focus on a one thing for a few seconds...but not all the time. It's like being able to hear something through a bunch of background noise...you might for a minute or two...but you can't enjoy a song or a hear a speech that way.

And his vision also cause him constant pain.
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Old July 7 2014, 04:34 AM   #25
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Re: Nemesis: why is Geordi so impressed with "normal" vision?

He also had telescopic vision, casually mentioned during Hide & Q.
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Old July 7 2014, 02:37 PM   #26
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Nemesis: why is Geordi so impressed with "normal" vision?

Morpheus 02 wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Timelord Victorious wrote: View Post
What was presented to us during TNG as Geordie-vision never seemed right.

The way it's been described was, that He sees all we see and then some.

So the way I imagine it is, that he sees the entire visual spectrum but in a condensed way. The blue side of the spectrum shifted towards red and the red toward blue to fit in the wider range of ultraviolet, infrared, etc.
Or at least that's how it should have been presented.
A drawback could be that he loses spectrum resolution. Where we can differentiate between a ton of shades of green for example, to Geordie it would just be simply green.
Also "pixel" resolution might be a factor. He had the ability to zoom in at least with the implants, which is awesome, but the picture quality could be like VHS compared to 4K.
That would be to assume the VISOR has inferior visual quality as normal eyesight, which is 1) something Geordi has absolutely no way to know and no basis for comparison and 2) probably not the case, since we know his visor is capble of detecting microfractures and metal fatigue in solid objects and is pretty good at determining the details of those features.

More to the point: if Geordi actually wanted to see what normal people see, it wouldn't be hard to adjust his visor to only show him the visual spectrum within the normal (for a human, anyway) color spectrum. The only reason not to leave his VISOR on that setting all the time is because he would find that way too limiting and likes being able to see such a broad range of detail (who wouldn't?).


And Insurrection is just Insurrection.
Except i don't think he can turn off his vision/focus it exclusively in one spectrum.
HE can't, obviously. But it would be relatively simple to reprogram his VISOR to only give him input in the visual spectrum in order to simulate normal vision. Basically, just narrow the VISOR's frequency range or, failing that, reduce the number of frequencies it actually sends to him. And again, the only real reason to NOT do that is because he would loose quite a bit of perception that way and that's not something he would find all that beneficial.

And his vision also cause him constant pain.
Until he takes it off, of course. That, more than anything, is probably why he switched to ocular implants after Generations. And the above consideration is also why he didn't arrange to have a set of eyes that give him a perfectly humanlike frequency response range: he didn't WANT normal vision, he wanted the full-monty broad spectrum Terminator View.
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Old July 7 2014, 06:25 PM   #27
Mytran
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Re: Nemesis: why is Geordi so impressed with "normal" vision?

Like many good sci-fi technology tropes, Geordi's VISOR is an "all or nothing" piece of kit. Similar to Steve Austin's arm and legs, it seems the only way to replace a missing human ability is with a superhuman ability! LaForge once described his VISOR as "seeing the entire electromagnetic spectrum at once" which may just be the natural state of whatever exotic material the VISOR is made from - selectively tuning it down may simply not be an option, not in a way which keeps the unit light and portable.
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