RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,591
Posts: 5,424,263
Members: 24,809
Currently online: 555
Newest member: Super Scout

TrekToday headlines

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12

New Wizkids Attack Wing Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 5 2014, 11:50 PM   #31
GSchnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
 
GSchnitzer's Avatar
 
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
Send a message via AIM to GSchnitzer Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to GSchnitzer Send a message via Yahoo to GSchnitzer
Re: Interesting trims from Star Trek scripts

The Revised Final Draft script of "Dagger of the Mind" (August 5, 1966) offers a bit of extra dialog that helps flesh out Dr. Adams' motivation a bit.

From Act Four, Scene 177--Kirk is in the Tantalus device chair for another treatment:

ADAMS
I give you credit. Van Gelder was
on his knees sobbing by
now.
(nods)
It's good I've had a pair like you.
I've learned a great deal.

KIRK
(with difficulty)
For... what purpose, Doctor? I
cannot understand a man of your...
of your...

ADAMS
Of my reputation? Unfortunately,
I have little else... except...
now, with this device... power.
Power over minds... and thus
over everything that counts.
The final great criterion.
Intriguing. And since I have
it, I've decided to use it for
myself... after all these years
of doing things for others.
(beat... a smile)
Say I want a very comfortable
old age... on my terms... and
I am a most selective man.

KIRK
Unnecessary. Just... trust...

ADAMS
TRUST mankind to offer me my
just rewards?
(smiles)
You're an optimist, Captain.
In this work I've learned too
much about men's minds.
(interrupted by
Lethe hurrying
into scene)

LETHE
The woman doctor... she is gone,
Doctor Adams...

At this, Adams throw a look at Kirk, reaches for the
panel, turns up the volume, the device HUMMING STRONGLY.

So, it appears Dr. Adams is an embittered, disgruntled employee, tired of constantly taking care of others. Dr. Adams simply went "postal."
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II
http://www.startrekphase2.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3348883/
GSchnitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2014, 12:09 AM   #32
GSchnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
 
GSchnitzer's Avatar
 
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
Send a message via AIM to GSchnitzer Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to GSchnitzer Send a message via Yahoo to GSchnitzer
Re: Interesting trims from Star Trek scripts

The Final Draft script for "And the Children Shall Lead" dated June 21, 1968 sheds a little bit of light on this issue of how Kirk learns the name "Gorgan."

In Scene 215 after Mister Spock plays back the tape of the children's chant from earlier, Kirk moves from his position where he was standing near Spock's station and goes over in front of the turbo lift where Melvin Belli is slowly beginning to appear:

KIRK
The time has come to gather and
see the world as it is.

The shimmering figure of Gorgan begins to appear
before the boys who do not form a circle, only watch,
uncertain, confused.

KIRK
(continuing)
Come -- join us. You must
have a name.

TOMMY
(defiantly)
He is Gorgan. He is our friend --
and he is powerful.

Now Gorgan reaches full flower.

GORGAN
(confused)
Who has summoned me?

KIRK
I did, Gorgan. My beast is gone.
It lost its power in the light of
reality. I command again. And I
ordered you to appear.

It's hard to tell if the dialog was shot but not used or if it was simply never shot at all. My hunch, from looking at how the scene is edited, is that the little bit of dialog was indeed shot but not ultimately used.

It's a little plot hole, I guess, and it's hard to say why the two seconds of dialog wasn't used. I guess it slowed down the exquisite storytelling that was going on and I guess the writer and/or director and/or editor just figured that the audience would simply conclude that one of the kids told Kirk the name of this alien being offscreen at some point.

As I've said before: this line doesn't really salvage the episode. But it's interesting that it's not a plot hole that someone forgot to fill; rather, it's a plot hole someone intentionally chose to create for some unknown reason.
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II
http://www.startrekphase2.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3348883/

Last edited by GSchnitzer; July 6 2014 at 02:59 PM.
GSchnitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7 2014, 02:43 PM   #33
Marsden
Captain
 
Marsden's Avatar
 
Location: Getting killed so the captain can have tea later.
Re: Interesting trims from Star Trek scripts

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
...
Folks may remember that after Sargon and Thalassa (while inhabiting Kirk and Dr. Anne Mulhall) share a last kiss, Nurse Chapel proclaims "It was beautiful," and the episode concludes. But as scripted, the interchange went on a little longer. Here's how the script wraps up: ...THE END
I think that was a good trim. Season 2 tried too hard to be "funny" at the end of some of the episodes. I like some humor, but they went a bit too far sometimes, and season 3 had almost none, which was too far in the other direction.
__________________
"A man either lives life as it happens to him, meets it head-on, and licks it. Or he turns his back on it and starts to wither away."
Marsden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7 2014, 04:28 PM   #34
alchemist
Commander
 
alchemist's Avatar
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: Interesting trims from Star Trek scripts

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
I have a favorite little scene that was edited out of "Return to Tomorrow." I don't know if it was ever actually shot. (The Alchemist is never around when you need him.)
YES, MY SON, MUCH OF THAT SCENE PERISHED TO THE OBLIVION OF THE CUTTING ROOM FLOOR.



__________________
www.startrekhistory.com

Last edited by alchemist; July 7 2014 at 04:45 PM.
alchemist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7 2014, 06:13 PM   #35
Grant
Fleet Captain
 
Grant's Avatar
 
Re: Interesting trims from Star Trek scripts

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
The Revised Final Draft script of "Dagger of the Mind" (August 5, 1966) offers a bit of extra dialog that helps flesh out Dr. Adams' motivation a bit.

From Act Four, Scene 177--Kirk is in the Tantalus device chair for another treatment:

ADAMS
I give you credit. Van Gelder was
on his knees sobbing by
now.
(nods)
It's good I've had a pair like you.
I've learned a great deal.

KIRK
(with difficulty)
For... what purpose, Doctor? I
cannot understand a man of your...
of your...

ADAMS
Of my reputation? Unfortunately,
I have little else... except...
now, with this device... power.
Power over minds... and thus
over everything that counts.
The final great criterion.
Intriguing. And since I have
it, I've decided to use it for
myself... after all these years
of doing things for others.
(beat... a smile)
Say I want a very comfortable
old age... on my terms... and
I am a most selective man.

KIRK
Unnecessary. Just... trust...

ADAMS
TRUST mankind to offer me my
just rewards?
(smiles)
You're an optimist, Captain.
In this work I've learned too
much about men's minds.
(interrupted by
Lethe hurrying
into scene)

LETHE
The woman doctor... she is gone,
Doctor Adams...

At this, Adams throw a look at Kirk, reaches for the
panel, turns up the volume, the device HUMMING STRONGLY.

So, it appears Dr. Adams is an embittered, disgruntled employee, tired of constantly taking care of others. Dr. Adams simply went "postal."
Thank you for that!

Awesome info. I always wondered what could have been his motivation. That added some insight.
Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7 2014, 06:51 PM   #36
Maab
Lieutenant
 
Location: Rome, Italy
Re: Interesting trims from Star Trek scripts

Very interesting thread.

I have one question: where to find TOS scripts? I bought a few on ebay, with the idea of finding them all, but at 30/40 dollars each (including shipping) they'd cost me a fortune (and I believe not all episodes are available).

I also found few of them to download but only 3 or 4 episodes (with TNG and DS9 it's different since all the scripts have been released on CD-ROM so they are all easily accessible).

Any suggestion?

Best,
Maab
Maab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7 2014, 07:05 PM   #37
GSchnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
 
GSchnitzer's Avatar
 
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
Send a message via AIM to GSchnitzer Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to GSchnitzer Send a message via Yahoo to GSchnitzer
Re: Interesting trims from Star Trek scriptse

There's also an interesting little oddity from the script for
"Amok Time." The Final Draft (July 5, 1967) has this brief exchange when they are introduced to Vulcan matriarch T'Pau:

SCENE 84 MED. FULL SHOT - T'PAU. SPOCK, KIRK, McCOY

Spock indicates Kirk, is having increasing difficulty
speaking.

SPOCK
This... is Kirk...

KIRK
At your service, Madam...

T'PAU
(overlapping
to McCoy)
And thee is called...?

McCOY
Leonard McCoy, ma'am.

T'PAU
Coy?

McCOY
McCoy, ma'am.

T'PAU
Coy. We do not employ titles.
(turning to Spock)
Thee names these outworlders
'friends.' How does thee pledge
their behavior?

SPOCK
With my life, T'Pau.

(etc., etc., etc.)


So evidently Vulcans don't use titles--and "Mc" (meaning "son of") is considered a title. It's unclear precisely what T'Pau means. They don't use titles ever? They don't use titles when they are actually on Vulcan? When it's koon-ut-kal-if-fee? When it's any kind of ancient ceremony? When addressing an elder statesman? When addressing a woman?

Is it possible that Spock grew up never using titles, and now that he's in Starfleet with Lieutenants and Captains and Admirals and Doctors and Ambassadors, he's had to learn a whole new non-Vulcan way of addressing folks? If so, this might be yet another way in which Spock is far more alien than he ostensibly seems.

Whatever this "we don't use titles" rule is meant to imply, and whenever it is to be invoked, it's an interesting characteristic Vulcans would seem to have. It would seem to highlight a more egalitarian society and would seem to highlight people's value as individuals, rather than their class or vocation or education.
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II
http://www.startrekphase2.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3348883/
GSchnitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 8 2014, 05:59 AM   #38
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
Re: Interesting trims from Star Trek scripts

^^^She known English really well if she understands that "Mc" means "son of". I guess "Robertson" just becomes Robert on Vulcan?
__________________
* * *
"If you wanted to get a good meeting... just go in and
say 'darker, grittier, sexier' and whatever."
—Glen Larson, 2010
Maurice is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 8 2014, 06:11 AM   #39
GSchnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
 
GSchnitzer's Avatar
 
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
Send a message via AIM to GSchnitzer Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to GSchnitzer Send a message via Yahoo to GSchnitzer
Re: Interesting trims from Star Trek scripts

Maurice wrote: View Post
^^^She known English really well if she understands that "Mc" means "son of". I guess "Robertson" just becomes Robert on Vulcan?

Or, more to the point, Amanda Grayson.

Like I said, it's unclear as to exactly when this rule is invoked. Perhaps it's used only on the 43rd day of the month of Tasmeen.
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II
http://www.startrekphase2.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3348883/
GSchnitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 8 2014, 02:18 PM   #40
Marsden
Captain
 
Marsden's Avatar
 
Location: Getting killed so the captain can have tea later.
Re: Interesting trims from Star Trek scripts

Maurice wrote: View Post
^^^She known English really well if she understands that "Mc" means "son of". I guess "Robertson" just becomes Robert on Vulcan?
I guess Bones could have come back with calling her Pau, because he doesn't do floating consonants.
__________________
"A man either lives life as it happens to him, meets it head-on, and licks it. Or he turns his back on it and starts to wither away."
Marsden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 8 2014, 02:37 PM   #41
Richard Baker
Commander
 
Richard Baker's Avatar
 
Location: Warrior, AL
Re: Interesting trims from Star Trek scripts

Didn't McCoy identify himself as "McCoy, son of David" at the Vulcan ceremony at the end of STIII?
Richard Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 8 2014, 02:45 PM   #42
Marsden
Captain
 
Marsden's Avatar
 
Location: Getting killed so the captain can have tea later.
Re: Interesting trims from Star Trek scripts

Richard Baker wrote: View Post
Didn't McCoy identify himself as "McCoy, son of David" at the Vulcan ceremony at the end of STIII?
You are correct!

PRIESTESS: (in Vulcan) Kal-tor kal-if-fah.
PRIESTESS: Sarek, ...child of Skon, ...child of Solkar, the body of your son breathes still. What is your wish?
SAREK: I ask for fal-tor-pan, the refusion.
PRIESTESS: What you seek has not been done since ages past, and then, only in legend. Your request is not logical.
SAREK: Forgive me, T'Lar. My logic is uncertain where my son is concerned.
PRIESTESS: Who is the Keeper of the katra?
McCOY: I am ...McCoy, ...Leonard H., ...Son of David.
PRIESTESS: McCoy, son of David, since thou art human, we cannot expect thee to understand fully what Sarek has requested. Spock's body lives. ...With your approval, we shall use all our powers to return to his body that which you possess. But McCoy, ...you must now be warned! The danger to thyself is as grave as the danger to Spock. ...You must make the choice.
McCOY: I choose the danger. ...Hell of time to ask.

So Sarek should have been Sarek McSkonMcSokar?
__________________
"A man either lives life as it happens to him, meets it head-on, and licks it. Or he turns his back on it and starts to wither away."
Marsden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 8 2014, 03:18 PM   #43
GSchnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
 
GSchnitzer's Avatar
 
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
Send a message via AIM to GSchnitzer Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to GSchnitzer Send a message via Yahoo to GSchnitzer
Re: Interesting trims from Star Trek scripts

So this is a bit interesting. It's interesting to see the roots of the toast that Dr. Tristan Adams gives in "Dagger of the Mind." with Captain Kirk, Dr. Noel, and (sort of) Lethe. Here's the final version from the episode as aired:

ADAMS
"To all mankind...
may we never find space so vast,
planets so cold,
heart and mind so empty
that we cannot fill them
with love and warmth."

But here it is from the earlier Revised Final Draft script:

ADAMS
"To mankind... may we never find
space so vast, planets so cold..."

Adams looks to Kirk, gets a smile and a nod; Kirk
completing it.

KIRK
"...or our own hearts so empty
that we cannot fill and warm them
all." Amen, Doctor.

So, this is interesting for a few reasons:

1. It was originally conceived to be such a common toast that while Adams started it, Kirk was able to finish it.
2. It was originally hoped that our own hearts won't be found empty--not other people's hearts.
3. Kirk topped it off with an "Amen, Doctor"--probably much like McCoy's "Amen to that, Scotty" from "Mudd's Women."
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II
http://www.startrekphase2.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3348883/
GSchnitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 8 2014, 06:33 PM   #44
Green Shirt
Commodore
 
Green Shirt's Avatar
 
Location: 21133
Re: Interesting trims from Star Trek scripts

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Dr. Adams simply went "postal."
As a 20 year US Postal Service employee who has never stolen mail, nor shot a co-worker - I resemble that comment.
__________________
Its not easy being green.
Green Shirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 8 2014, 06:48 PM   #45
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Interesting trims from Star Trek scripts

Green Shirt wrote: View Post
GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Dr. Adams simply went "postal."
As a 20 year US Postal Service employee who has never stolen mail, nor shot a co-worker - I resemble that comment.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:16 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.