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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old July 8 2014, 10:24 PM   #61
Franklin
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Re: New writers speak

We'll know if it's exploration if we get long, lingering shots of Sulu staring at the viewscreen.
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Old July 9 2014, 12:03 AM   #62
M'Sharak
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Re: New writers speak

mos6507 wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
Both of Abrams's Trek movies are as fully about exploration of the unknown as most previous Star Trek.
How? In what meaningful way?

The JJ camp have acknowledged critics by saying the next film will probably be more about exploration. Why contradict them by saying the first two had plenty of it when it didn't?
In what way has Dennis contradicted them?

(Please point to things he actually said in the post quoted, of course, as opposed to your bush-league attempt at putting words in his mouth - poor form, that.)
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Old July 9 2014, 09:49 AM   #63
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Re: New writers speak

mos6507 wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
Both of Abrams's Trek movies are as fully about exploration of the unknown as most previous Star Trek.
How? In what meaningful way?
The majority of the audience probably haven't seen Star Trek before.

I think the moment that best sums it up is Kirk craning his neck to see when the Klingon commander takes off his helmet. Has he ever seen a Klingon before? And have we die-hard fans seen Klingons like this before? All that's old is new again.
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Old July 9 2014, 05:43 PM   #64
Ryan8bit
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Re: New writers speak

I think "exploring strange new worlds" in essence meaning going places we the audience haven't seen before; places that are alien and exciting. Nibiru and Ketha on Kronos fit the bill for me there. The 2009 movie didn't have as much. Maybe Delta Vega and parts of Vulcan. It doesn't matter if the crew have been there before, something like seeing Vulcan in "Amok Time" was enough for us as the audience to see a new world. That's what I would like to continue to see in the movies.
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Old July 9 2014, 06:20 PM   #65
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Re: New writers speak

mos6507 wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
Both of Abrams's Trek movies are as fully about exploration of the unknown as most previous Star Trek.
How? In what meaningful way?

Exactly as stated. It's a pretty simple declarative statement easily supported by familiarity with previous Star Trek narrative. Most Star Trek has not been about space exploration. It simply uses deep space as a setting. Saying that "Star Trek is about exploration" is equivalent to saying something like "Gunsmoke is about archeological investigation of the pre-Columbian cultures of the American desert southwest."

'Cause, you know, there were Indians. One was played by Richardo Montalban.
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Old July 9 2014, 06:32 PM   #66
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Re: New writers speak

I love the "entolution.gif" avatar, Ryan8bit.
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Old July 9 2014, 11:34 PM   #67
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Re: New writers speak

Thanks. I loathe to mention where I got the idea...
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Old July 10 2014, 12:00 AM   #68
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Re: New writers speak

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Thanks. I loathe to mention where I got the idea...
It reminds me of the evolution animation on the original Cosmos TV show.
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Old July 11 2014, 08:44 AM   #69
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Re: New writers speak

Dennis wrote: View Post
'Cause, you know, there were Indians. One was played by Richardo Montalban.
It's a great day when a white guy can be cast as an Indian guy previously played by a Mexican guy. Progress!

But, you know, we've seen lots of Star Trek narrative about first contact with alien species, encountering previously unknown lifeforms that do all sorts of weird and wonderful and terrifying things, visiting previously un-visited regions of space, recontacting far-flung civilizations and societies that were previously barely glimpsed... that's kind of the bulk of the product, really. Kinda feels disingenuous to try to claim that most Trek narrative hasn't been about exploration.

(I mean, you could say most of it hasn't been about hardcore survival-style Franklin Expedition sort of exploration, that would be fair. It mostly take place in a more comfortable "Royal Navy/American Navy/Odysseus-in-space sort of zone. But that's hardly the bone of contention.)

Of course, in ST09 the crew is encountering something they've never encountered before. But it's clearly more of a "stop the villainous death-ray" plot, such as it is, than an exploration plot. Likewise in STID, there's sort of an encounter-with-the-unknown aspect to Khan... if he hadn't been introduced precisely because the character is known to mass audiences. Even so, pretty weak beer to try to say that's "exploration" plotting on the same level as the bulk of the series.

If Orci knows that -- and he shows wisdom in knowing it -- it shouldn't be too hard for TBBS to fess up to it. Which I take to be mos6507's point.
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Old July 30 2014, 04:45 PM   #70
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Re: New writers speak

These guys sound really respectful and filled with hope at writing the next film, and though I'm not familiar with their abilities, I trust Bob Orci to know what he's doing bringing them aboard (and Abrams of course). Looking forward to whatever they come up with.
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Old August 1 2014, 04:02 PM   #71
Dennis
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Re: New writers speak

BigJake wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
'Cause, you know, there were Indians. One was played by Richardo Montalban.
It's a great day when a white guy can be cast as an Indian guy previously played by a Mexican guy.
Was Khan Indian? Because McGivers said he might be?
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Old August 1 2014, 04:06 PM   #72
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Re: New writers speak

Dennis wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
'Cause, you know, there were Indians. One was played by Richardo Montalban.
It's a great day when a white guy can be cast as an Indian guy previously played by a Mexican guy.
Was Khan Indian? Because McGivers said he might be?
I think the intent was that Khan was Indian. But, there's a Hell of a lot of wiggle room there because of the way they presented it.
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Old August 1 2014, 04:15 PM   #73
Dennis
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Re: New writers speak

BillJ wrote: View Post
I think the intent was that Khan was Indian.
Mebbe, but there's not a thing Indian about him except his name.
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Old August 1 2014, 04:42 PM   #74
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Re: New writers speak

Dennis wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I think the intent was that Khan was Indian.
Mebbe, but there's not a thing Indian about him except his name.
I sometimes wonder if "Khan" was just a title he gave himself.
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Old August 1 2014, 09:01 PM   #75
Franklin
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Re: New writers speak

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I think the intent was that Khan was Indian.
Mebbe, but there's not a thing Indian about him except his name.
I sometimes wonder if "Khan" was just a title he gave himself.
That's always been my take. Khan is either title going back to the Mongols, or a common surname among Muslims in south Asia. Neither the name nor the title have anything to do with Sikhs. Singh is a very common Sikh surname.

I think this has been said on here before, but the writer of "Space Seed" was probably just going for something that sounded exotic and didn't give a rat's ass if the name was authentic or even made ethnic sense. He certainly didn't think the name would be analyzed nearly fifty years later.
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