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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 30 2014, 12:32 AM   #16
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Re: Generation & Nexus

Seven of Five wrote: View Post
The Nexus doesn't make much sense when you stop and think about it.

But the music is amazing. In fact I think Generations is a relatively good film up until all the nonsense in the Nexus bogs everything down. The big meeting between Kirk and Picard is a damp squib too.
Two of the greatest starship captains in history meet for the first time...and cook some eggs. Hm. Then they ride horses. Zzzz.
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Old June 30 2014, 03:34 AM   #17
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Re: Generation & Nexus

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
I still can't understand how they got in. This nexus could tear a starship to pieces, utterly destroy a planet on contact, but people just pass into it harmlessly?
The Nexus didn't actually destroy the planet. The shockwave from the sun going supernova thanks to Soran's torpedo destroyed it. So the gimmick was that if ships tried flying into the Nexus, they'd get destroyed, but apparently it's perfectly safe if you're standing on a planet's surface while the Nexus passes through it.

Except of course, there's one small problem with this: In not one, not two, but three instances in the film, characters got into the Nexus from being on a ship: Guinan and Soran (from the El-Aurian transports) and Kirk (from the Enterprise-B).
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Old June 30 2014, 03:40 AM   #18
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Re: Generation & Nexus

Dukhat wrote: View Post
The Nexus didn't actually destroy the planet. The shockwave from the sun going supernova thanks to Soran's torpedo destroyed it. So the gimmick was that if ships tried flying into the Nexus, they'd get destroyed, but apparently it's perfectly safe if you're standing on a planet's surface while the Nexus passes through it.
Oh yeah...I forgot about the sun...

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Except of course, there's one small problem with this: In not one, not two, but three instances in the film, characters got into the Nexus from being on a ship: Guinan and Soran (from the El-Aurian transports) and Kirk (from the Enterprise-B).
Just amazing, how all those kinds of details got by them. There's just something weird about this whole movie.
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Old June 30 2014, 06:58 AM   #19
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Re: Generation & Nexus

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
Easy: they ride off on horseback into the sunset!

I still can't understand how they got in. This nexus could tear a starship to pieces, utterly destroy a planet on contact, but people just pass into it harmlessly?
More important, where did the horses come from? The Enterprise-B isn't getting its tractor beams until Tuesday but its livery stables are at 100 percent?

And if you were a horse, would your Nexus fantasy be ``getting ridden by Kirk''?
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Old June 30 2014, 07:23 AM   #20
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Re: Generation & Nexus

Nebusj wrote: View Post
LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
Easy: they ride off on horseback into the sunset!

I still can't understand how they got in. This nexus could tear a starship to pieces, utterly destroy a planet on contact, but people just pass into it harmlessly?
More important, where did the horses come from? The Enterprise-B isn't getting its tractor beams until Tuesday but its livery stables are at 100 percent?

And if you were a horse, would your Nexus fantasy be ``getting ridden by Kirk''?
Apparently Kirk's house got sucked in as well. Maybe it was a holoprogram on the Ent B.
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Old June 30 2014, 12:36 PM   #21
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Re: Generation & Nexus

I think the whole reason Soran didn't just fly into the Nexus with a ship is that may have been more of a crap-shoot, with no guarantee that the ship would not have been destroyed before the Nexus took the occupants. Kirk may even have been blown out into space through the hole in the Enterprise-B before taken into the Nexus rather than just plucked out of the ship.

My take on it was when Soran said it was the only way, he meant it was the only way that didn't risk his being killed before the Nexus took him - he did after all build a high platform in order to get grabbed, and not just sit on the surface to wait, and it was pure luck that Picard was close enough to get pulled in too.

That being said, I also agree that the Nexus itself was a poorly thought-through plot device.
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Old June 30 2014, 06:29 PM   #22
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Re: Generation & Nexus

Aye, I think the worst part is the inconsistency of it. Soran says he needs to get into the Nexus by blowing holes in the galaxy because "Believe me, this IS the only way", but we're still expected to accept the falacy that Guinan actually managed to get there (during the Enterprise-B rescue, or maybe some later more successful attempt?) for long enough for her to leave an echo of herself behind. So if the Ent-B hadn't beamed them out then all the guys on those ships at the start of the movie would've made the transition and been fine? Maybe the guys on the other ship did in fact manage to ascend into the Nexus before their vessel went bye-bye.

And then we're shown that Kirk managed to get there through no means other than falling out of a big hole in the side of the 1701-B.

Soran wanting to find a 'safe' way to get there is indeed a plausible fanon explaination, and nobody in the 24th century (including Soran) knew Kirk had managed to survive simply falling into the Nexus anyway, but realistically his destroying suns quite patently isn't the "only" way for him to get into the Nexus!
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Old June 30 2014, 06:43 PM   #23
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Re: Generation & Nexus

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
That 'echo' thing was unexplained and vague. It sounded more like something that would be acceptable in a different type of movie, like, say, The Neverending Story, or something.
The Nexus is The Nothing.

Maybe Guinan's echo is in there because she's a better listener than Soran.
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Old June 30 2014, 06:51 PM   #24
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Re: Generation & Nexus

Im sure Soran had an echo there two, but to the Soran that is outside the Nexus it did not matter, he wanted to get back in desperately! So when he got back in he probably merged with his echo self.
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Old June 30 2014, 07:10 PM   #25
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Re: Generation & Nexus

Hmm... what if a Nexus Echo itself managed to get out? Would they leave an Echo Echo?
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Old June 30 2014, 07:14 PM   #26
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Re: Generation & Nexus

Well the whole "echo" left behind thing is this: once you're in the Nexus, you're in it forever. The Nexus exists outside of time, so everyone that has ever entered it or ever will enter it from our perspective of time will exist in it and have existed it in for the entirety of "Nexus time," which isn't anything....



I think I hurt my brain...? The better question is if Wesley had been piloting the saucer section instead of Deanna, would they still have crashed?
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Old June 30 2014, 07:27 PM   #27
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Re: Generation & Nexus

If Wesley had piloted the saucer, everyone would have been trapped with the Traveler just looking at them and smiling incessantly.
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Old June 30 2014, 09:21 PM   #28
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Re: Generation & Nexus

Lance wrote: View Post
Aye, I think the worst part is the inconsistency of it. Soran says he needs to get into the Nexus by blowing holes in the galaxy because "Believe me, this IS the only way", but we're still expected to accept the falacy that Guinan actually managed to get there (during the Enterprise-B rescue, or maybe some later more successful attempt?) for long enough for her to leave an echo of herself behind. So if the Ent-B hadn't beamed them out then all the guys on those ships at the start of the movie would've made the transition and been fine? Maybe the guys on the other ship did in fact manage to ascend into the Nexus before their vessel went bye-bye.

And then we're shown that Kirk managed to get there through no means other than falling out of a big hole in the side of the 1701-B.

Soran wanting to find a 'safe' way to get there is indeed a plausible fanon explaination, and nobody in the 24th century (including Soran) knew Kirk had managed to survive simply falling into the Nexus anyway, but realistically his destroying suns quite patently isn't the "only" way for him to get into the Nexus!
Now that's an interesting point - could the Enterprise-B "rescue" actually have snatched people back from being able to spend forever in their absolute paradise, where all thier dreams come true and they never grow old.
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Old June 30 2014, 09:57 PM   #29
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Re: Generation & Nexus

BillJ wrote: View Post
LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
As I understand it, the Enterprise B "rips" them away during the fateful SS Lakul rescue mission. Guinan leaves "an echo" of herself behind.
If they were both El-Aurian: shouldn't Soran have left an echo behind as well?
Perhaps we just didn't see him. However, I just bought an e-book that came out last year by James Swallow called "The Stuff of Dreams" and it follows Picard's return to the Nexus and Soran's echo is there. Granted I know this is not canon, but it's something worth checking out. I'm reading it now.
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Old July 1 2014, 01:14 AM   #30
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Re: Generation & Nexus

Everything related to the nexus is annoying. Annoying because it raises questions, none get answered, and still more questions pile up like scrap lumber at a construction site.

Every other weird phenomenon the Enterprise D encountered made total sense by comparison. One had 'length' and 'width', but no 'height'. At least that concept had something your imagination could hold on to. Another, a vortex where time ran backwards. Simple enough to understand that idea, too. And so it goes...

The nexus? A ribbon of destructive energy which (based on the description) flies around in a big circle every 39 years. Every starship that encountered it has been destroyed. So, is the area of the nexus' travel a quarantined area? No one really appears to know about it, and Data spoke of it as if it were a sighting of some rarely-seen bird (bear in mind I haven't seen this movie in quite some time). It just seems that it would be studied intensely, if only from a safe distance.

How does Guinan's "echo" know she's (it's?) only an echo? Would that make it (her) a separate being altogether? (I was grateful she (it) showed up, though, otherwise I think Picard would still be there, staring at that Christmas ornament!)

Much discussed above is the "you can't get into the nexus with a ship" issue, but how would anyone know that? What would even prompt them to try? "Hmm, I wonder if I can go inside that thing?". If they failed, they'd die trying, so there would be no chance for anyone to spread the word "Whatever you do, don't try it with a ship!". And if they succeeded, no one would know that, either. Unless of course, they returned (however that works) and told the tale, in which case Data would have mentioned it in his description, you'd think.

See what I mean about no, simple, fundamental grasp of the thing? In Star Trek: The Motion Picture, V'ger was immense and awesomely powerful, yet it was simple to understand the basics: it 'digitized' everything it encountered in a quest for knowledge. Where's the conceptual 'hook' for the nexus?

?

?

I will never think about the nexus again. There are no answers.
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