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Old June 28 2014, 01:57 PM   #16
teacake
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Re: Am I the only one?

It's not what happened, it's what Phlox was waiting to see happen. His anticipation.

Also..

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Old June 28 2014, 02:30 PM   #17
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Re: Am I the only one?

Not sure why but I find it more acceptable that the decon gel was more the idea of a voyeuristic doctor but for some reason that's the case lol
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Old June 29 2014, 12:42 AM   #18
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Re: Am I the only one?

Because decon gel is stupid. VERY stupid.

But if Phlox wants to see people rubbing stuff on each other, that actually makes sense.

Really though you would think T'Pol would have pointed out how illogical and inefficient decon gel was. Unless she liked the rubbing, which since she didn't point it out must be the case!
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Old June 29 2014, 03:54 AM   #19
T'Polismygirl
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Re: Am I the only one?

More going on behind that Vulcan façade than meets the eye!
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Old June 29 2014, 04:00 AM   #20
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Re: Am I the only one?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
If you feel the need to blame someone for those godawful decon gel scenes, don't blame John Billingsly. Blame the suits at UPN for wanting to inject random pointless "sex" into Star Trek in an effort to boost the ratings with the lowest common denominator of viewer.
No doubt it's common knowledge and been talked about ad nauseum in these corridors, but for someone not really familiar with the history, why would the suits have felt the need to push this content right at the beginning of the series? Was it merely the desire to ensure as dynamic an entrance to this vehicle after the less than sizzling bowout of the previous one?

Of course sex sells generally, so perhaps the more overt presentation of suggestiveness than generally seen before in Trek was formulated as just another factor in producing a winning and attractive,at least as regards ratings, product.
Were there doubts about the viability or acceptability of the show as it had been constructed that might have prompted pressure for the inclusion of a prurient misdirection initiative?

It just seems that slipping (sorry) such content in while not making it part of any kind of genuine change in the franchise's representation of sensuality in the Trekverse, notwithstanding the show being set at a much earlier point in history, would be an instrument more likely used to resuscitate an already ailing program, not one just aborning. In any case, I can certainly appreciate the disdain that was widely expressed about it in the midst of so many other stylistic and substantive "issues" Enterprise presented to viewers innured to the Trek progression as it had evolved up to that point.
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Old June 29 2014, 10:00 AM   #21
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Re: Am I the only one?

Whenever Star Trek thinks it's being edgy it is deeply embarrassing.
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Old June 29 2014, 11:34 AM   #22
T'Polismygirl
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Re: Am I the only one?

Well to be honest Trek was in a steady decline over the years due to Trek getting away from being Trek IMO.

I always thought DS9 suffered from being set on a space station. You stop trekking and you stop Trekking in a very real sense for many fans. The introduction of the Defiant speaks to this absence. The one thing DS9 did right they did right in spades! It was set firmly in the Trekverse and advanced the overall universe storyline.

Voyager, at least getting back in space, actually moved even farther from being Trek. The fundamental premise removes the protagonists from the midst of the rich tapestry of the Trekverse. You could change the name of the ship, different uniforms, and you have the same show.

Enterprise just didn't LOOK like Trek. I dunno how you both show it's earlier than TOS and still look like Trek but for me they missed the mark.

Of course all that being said I love each and every one of those series because ....well, it's TREK!!
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Old June 30 2014, 03:08 AM   #23
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Re: Am I the only one?

teacake wrote: View Post
Whenever Star Trek thinks it's being edgy it is deeply embarrassing.
Sort of in the same manner as when most people's parents, especially those that are particularly dyed-in-the-wool, attempt to step out from their normal routines and predilections?
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Old June 30 2014, 04:24 AM   #24
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Re: Am I the only one?

Drone wrote: View Post
No doubt it's common knowledge and been talked about ad nauseum in these corridors, but for someone not really familiar with the history, why would the suits have felt the need to push this content right at the beginning of the series?
But it didn't start at the beginning of ENT. It started during the middle of VOY, when they created the Seven of Nine character.

Imagine how much better it would have been had 7of9 stayed looking like a Borg drone throughout the series. How much more seriously the character would have been taken, instead of the catsuit-wearing big boobed bimbo we got.

T'Pol was nothing more than a 7of9 clone, and the decon gel scenes were just par for the course.
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Old June 30 2014, 07:41 AM   #25
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Re: Am I the only one?

There was nothing about 7's personality that was a bimbo and thanks to a great actor and good writing she became a compelling and pretty much sexless character. They advertised her one way, what they ended up with was something else entirely.

T'Pol was an interesting fail Vulcan, as her mother said she never did well at controlling her emotions. Vulcan likes to present itself as everyone on board, monoculture. But ENT showed us Vulcans who don't fit in and who made different choices, something you would get in any race. T'Pol is her BEST as a Vulcan surrounded by humans because they don't see how emotionally fail she is, they see her as LOGIC ftw! She gets to play a successfully logical Vulcan in control of her emotions and everyone believes her, whereas among her own kind her flaws are glaring. This is why she chooses to serve aboard a human vessel.

Neither character is simple. Calling either a bimbo misses the mark completely.
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Old June 30 2014, 08:00 AM   #26
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Re: Am I the only one?

Teacake you know it's the publicity shots that circulated before the characters showed up that created this false perception.

The assholes marketing the show sat in a different building than the assholes writing the show.

I doubt they had mixers.
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Old June 30 2014, 08:12 AM   #27
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Re: Am I the only one?

teacake wrote: View Post
There was nothing about 7's personality that was a bimbo and thanks to a great actor and good writing she became a compelling and pretty much sexless character. They advertised her one way, what they ended up with was something else entirely.
I wasn't talking about their personalities. I was talking about how they were physically presented to appear in the show. Please give me one good in-universe reason why 7of9 needed to wear that outfit.

But I suppose I could have been clearer. I meant to say "How much more seriously the character would have been taken (if she looked like the drone), instead of (looking like) a catsuit-wearing big boobed bimbo."
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Old June 30 2014, 08:18 AM   #28
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Re: Am I the only one?

1. The Doctor designed it for her, and the rest of her entire wardrobe too.

2. The Doctor's interpersonal subroutines were designed by Reg Barclay.

3. This is how Reg thinks a baller (the Doctor) would act in his idealized cartoony perception of reality, and how he thinks a "hot girl" should dress, because he's a virgin that's seen way too much holoporn.
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Old June 30 2014, 08:44 AM   #29
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Re: Am I the only one?

I have posted my in universe explanation for 7's outfit many times.

Borg "clothes" are tight fitting, hold all that tech and body bits together deals. Nothing extraneous, nothing flapping around, Borg clothing is just an extension of the skin, everything has a purpose. 7 gets disconnected from the collective and she is FREAKING OUT for like several seasons. She is deeply uncomfortable with just about everything, she should at least not feel like she is playing dress ups in human clothes. She wants to feel secure and a tight suit has the effect of swaddling her, she does not have to think, adjust (we will ignore the toilet issue, obviously there was hidden panels), coordinate.. it's just like wallking around as Borg. This is her comfort zone. When she does dress up for the EMH's social suggestions she is visibly uncomfortable even as those around her respond positively to her in normal attire. Eventually she will adapt, but at this point she has to adapt to so much let the poor woman be at least comfortable in her own clothes.

Out of universe I will point out that many characters wore cat suits. Kes was in one but no one complains. Just because a woman is stunning with huge boobs doesn't mean she should dress differently than a mousey vaguely adolescent thing. I think if 7 looked dorky NO ONE would be complaining.
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Old June 30 2014, 09:41 AM   #30
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Re: Am I the only one?

The Borg do not wear clothes.

So many layers of implants that it looks like clothing to the uneducated.

They were nude.

There was always a few Borg with exposed breasts and genitals just off camera.

Always.
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