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Old June 27 2014, 05:49 PM   #31
Avon
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Re: Phase II begins re-filming "Mind Sifter"

USS Intrepid wrote: View Post
Avon wrote: View Post
is that betras mcvindenpawl?

(i can't remember her name, something woods? but she's bloody awesome in every fan film i've seen her in)
Rebecca Wood.
ah thanks!
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Old June 27 2014, 08:06 PM   #32
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Re: Phase II begins re-filming "Mind Sifter"

andriech wrote: View Post
...Jack Komack was the worst person to work for in the world, but that didn't stop me from having him produce one of my scripts....
Jay wrote: View Post
As a fan of Ms. Wright's, I can answer that:

http://amybethinverness.com/2011/04/...-patty-wright/

...I wrote a “Chico and the Man” episode. I actually sent the episode to Jack Komack (“Chico”’s producer) – believe it or not – hand-written on a yellow legal pad. He sent me back a hand-written note that said “Thanks so much!” and two crisp $20. The episode was filmed without a single change, but credited to the show’s writing team. It’s on the “Best of” DVD.
Thanks, but I'd rather she comment on this herself, especially to know the episode title and why Komack was "the worst person to work for in the world".
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Old June 28 2014, 01:25 AM   #33
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Re: Phase II begins re-filming "Mind Sifter"

Kelso wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Kelso wrote: View Post
And I still can't believe that I can now watch "Kitumba" any time I want to.
Of all the great things they've done, I was incredibly underwhelmed by "Kitumba". I thought it was their weakest outing.

Oh, I really enjoyed "Kitumba." The only one I don't really care for is "The Child."
I personally thought "The Child" was a big yawn. Maybe because I wasn't impressed with the Deltan guest star's acting. As a mom I thought she was rather flat. Having worked on it closely with Povill I really appreciate what it meant to him, but watching it is another thing.

As for "Kitumba" I liked it for the first couple acts. At the end it's really choppy with a lot of stuff missing so the week that goes by looks like it all takes place in a day. All the sneaking around and fighting to get into the palace where Kargh's office and the prisoners are is missing (for several reasons), so again, it weakens everything because you end up thinking "what's the big deal? All these people just keep walking in and out"...so I can't personally enjoy it until the end. However, I think it's by far the prettiest episode Phase II has ever done. Both the cinematography and special effects are incredible. It's also a triumph of film making. The crew pulled off a miracle - several miracles - filming it, and it was the last time the entire "family" at the time was together. (five of them have died) So it will always have a special place in my heart.

I personally don't think they will ever top "World Enough and Time" though.

Maurice (and thanks to Greg for letting me know to check this thread), the episode title was "Chico's Padre". I'd like to be bragging about it being on the "best of" DVD, but during a private tour of Paramount they explained that the TV shows during the time period were all shot on tape and stored incorrectly, By the time they realized it, they could only salvage a handful of episodes for each one so, say, "The Best of Bosom Buddies" was actually "The Bosom Buddies Episodes We Could Salvage, The Rest Are Lost Forever". (They literally said that about the "best of" DVDs.)

I'm afraid I can't substantiate the "Jack Komack Terror" note. (I was just using it to make a point.) I was told years later by "industry people" when I got involved in the industry and met them. Can't even say for sure who told me, but I was told it was an industry wide known fact. Could have been "Horshack" from "Welcome Back Kotter" or Kevin Kline or Jack Albertson or.... not really sure. I seem to remember stories about him raging and throwing things and being an open dick to people and such... but can't say for sure. I was just told "Thank your lucky stars you didn't get on set". He was good to me. I bought Trek books with the $40. (and the note was vague enough that I couldn't prove anything if I wanted to fight him for credit and more pay. I was 14. I didn't even think that way....)
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Old June 28 2014, 03:04 AM   #34
Shane Houston
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Re: Phase II begins re-filming "Mind Sifter"

USS Intrepid wrote: View Post
Avon wrote: View Post
is that betras mcvindenpawl?

(i can't remember her name, something woods? but she's bloody awesome in every fan film i've seen her in)
Rebecca Wood.
Ah the good old days, huh Cap'n? The days when Captain Shelby of the USS Excelsior and Captain Hunter of the USS Intrepid would cross worlds and fight the somewhat evil President Vindenpawl. OI miss Hidden Frontier but glad we still got Intrepid.

Now back on topic. I can't wait see Mind Sifter. A story I read when I was 7 years old. Freaked me out in a fun way. And we get the very talented Rebecca Wood guest starring. I see James Cawley still has an appreciation for talented actors. Out of all the fan films over the years she is my favorite actress. She's just THAT good.

Last, let me say that GSchnitzer is a class act, and has become one of my favorite people behind the scenes in fan film production and as a moderator. He has the patience of Job from the Bible. Thanks for trying to keep the peace here dude. You do a good job.
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Old June 28 2014, 03:37 AM   #35
sturmde
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Re: Phase II begins re-filming "Mind Sifter"

So, this version goes back to the original story's use of Kor as the baddie Klingon, rather than the previous ST:NV/P2 script that was adjusted to use Kargh?
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Old June 28 2014, 03:53 AM   #36
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Re: Phase II begins re-filming "Mind Sifter"

Yep, they're back to using Kor. And judging by the pics on James Cawley's facebook page, Kor looks glorious!

Also, the Guardian of Forever looks fantastic and the admiral is sporty a spiffy new "Eisenhower jacket".

Last edited by Kelso; June 28 2014 at 04:07 AM.
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Old June 28 2014, 04:04 AM   #37
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Re: Phase II begins re-filming "Mind Sifter"

sturmde wrote: View Post
So, this version goes back to the original story's use of Kor as the baddie Klingon, rather than the previous ST:NV/P2 script that was adjusted to use Kargh?
Yes--although even Kor didn't really appear in Shirley's original story. Kor (and the Guardian of Forever for that matter) were added to the story by the editors of the book Star Trek: The New Voyages. In Shirley's original "Mind-Sifter" story for the version as published in the Star Trek fanzine Showcase one year earlier, Chekov, while looking at an old Earth book from 1953, coincidentally notices that two gentlemen in an old photograph are actually Koloth and Korax. (Other than seeing this 1953 photograph of the Klingons, we never actually see them in Shirley's original story. We hear second-hand about what ultimately befalls them, but the book doesn't really "show" it.)

Chekov's serendipitous discovery, of course, ultimately leads to the successful recovery of Captain Kirk.
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Old June 28 2014, 02:04 PM   #38
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Re: Phase II begins re-filming "Mind Sifter"

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
sturmde wrote: View Post
So, this version goes back to the original story's use of Kor as the baddie Klingon, rather than the previous ST:NV/P2 script that was adjusted to use Kargh?
Yes--although even Kor didn't really appear in Shirley's original story. Kor (and the Guardian of Forever for that matter) were added to the story by the editors of the book Star Trek: The New Voyages. In Shirley's original "Mind-Sifter" story for the version as published in the Star Trek fanzine Showcase one year earlier, Chekov, while looking at an old Earth book from 1953, coincidentally notices that two gentlemen in an old photograph are actually Koloth and Korax. (Other than seeing this 1953 photograph of the Klingons, we never actually see them in Shirley's original story. We hear second-hand about what ultimately befalls them, but the book doesn't really "show" it.)

Chekov's serendipitous discovery, of course, ultimately leads to the successful recovery of Captain Kirk.
May I ask you a question? How hard is it to write a script based on book based story? We've seen novelizations of the movies and some episodes, but this is backwards. AM I making sense? Pretty much the dialogue and the scenes have already been written in the short story. So how can, for example, one script for Mind Sifter be any different than another? (And no this has nothing to do with the discussion up thread. This is a technical question.)
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Old June 28 2014, 02:29 PM   #39
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Re: Phase II begins re-filming "Mind Sifter"

sturmde wrote: View Post
So, this version goes back to the original story's use of Kor as the baddie Klingon, rather than the previous ST:NV/P2 script that was adjusted to use Kargh?
Is there a possibility that after the new version of Mind-Sifter is released, to also release the original footage with James Cawley and John Carrigan, even in an unfinished version eventually? Similar to the alternate takes or deleted scenes in big feature DVDs? It would be a shame I think for this footage to stay locked away, unseen...
Speaking of Carrigan, he's dependably played Kaargh on many episodes, he should be given his Trelane role perhaps? (referring to William Campbell's planned continuing returns as Koloth after playing the one-shot man-child)...easily one of my favorites in the Phase 2 company...
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Old June 28 2014, 03:14 PM   #40
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Re: Phase II begins re-filming "Mind Sifter"

Shane Houston wrote: View Post
GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
sturmde wrote: View Post
So, this version goes back to the original story's use of Kor as the baddie Klingon, rather than the previous ST:NV/P2 script that was adjusted to use Kargh?
Yes--although even Kor didn't really appear in Shirley's original story. Kor (and the Guardian of Forever for that matter) were added to the story by the editors of the book Star Trek: The New Voyages. In Shirley's original "Mind-Sifter" story for the version as published in the Star Trek fanzine Showcase one year earlier, Chekov, while looking at an old Earth book from 1953, coincidentally notices that two gentlemen in an old photograph are actually Koloth and Korax. (Other than seeing this 1953 photograph of the Klingons, we never actually see them in Shirley's original story. We hear second-hand about what ultimately befalls them, but the book doesn't really "show" it.)

Chekov's serendipitous discovery, of course, ultimately leads to the successful recovery of Captain Kirk.
May I ask you a question? How hard is it to write a script based on book based story? We've seen novelizations of the movies and some episodes, but this is backwards. AM I making sense? Pretty much the dialogue and the scenes have already been written in the short story. So how can, for example, one script for Mind Sifter be any different than another? (And no this has nothing to do with the discussion up thread. This is a technical question.)
Well, written stories (especially longer novels--say Harry Potter) can't be shown in their entirety. The screenwriter will have to truncate it somehow. What to include and what not to include might cause variations in screenwriters' interpretations. Some scenes read well but don't "show" well. "Spock was concerned about X and Y and Z and was trying to decide whether he should take Action One, Action Two, or Action Three" ends up being filmed (boringly) as Spock sitting at his desk thinking. Different screenwriters might concoct some other plot device as a proxy to demonstrate Spock's uncertainties.

How can two different Spiderman "origins" scripts filmed years apart be different from each other when they are both drawn from the same comic book origin story?
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Old June 28 2014, 03:23 PM   #41
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Re: Phase II begins re-filming "Mind Sifter"

andriech wrote: View Post
Maurice (and thanks to Greg for letting me know to check this thread), the episode title was "Chico's Padre". I'd like to be bragging about it being on the "best of" DVD, but during a private tour of Paramount they explained that the TV shows during the time period were all shot on tape and stored incorrectly, By the time they realized it, they could only salvage a handful of episodes for each one so, say, "The Best of Bosom Buddies" was actually "The Bosom Buddies Episodes We Could Salvage, The Rest Are Lost Forever". (They literally said that about the "best of" DVDs.)
Since you gave the title, I found it!

http://www.rakuten.com/prod/chico-an...4yAL0V5C_D_BwE

You can actually see a clip of the episode here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsgDCdvJIfM

I had no idea you were only 14 when you wrote this. It's really great dialog. It's a crime that they didn't give you some credit especially since they didn't change a word! What unethical people!
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Old June 28 2014, 03:36 PM   #42
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Re: Phase II begins re-filming "Mind Sifter"

Shane Houston wrote: View Post
May I ask you a question? How hard is it to write a script based on book based story? We've seen novelizations of the movies and some episodes, but this is backwards. AM I making sense? Pretty much the dialogue and the scenes have already been written in the short story. So how can, for example, one script for Mind Sifter be any different than another? (And no this has nothing to do with the discussion up thread. This is a technical question.)
I can answer that question to begin with. (Also, Gerrold told me that that Rick and David Reddish didn't even read the fanzine story so they actually only "wrote a script based on a book". They didn't consider the original fanzine story at all.). I find it easy - and more of a "school assignment" than just writing out of pure creativity. The first thing I did was to write the teaser - because that sets up the entire tone of the episode. Then I broke up the original story into "scenes" as if they were a script.

Then comes the "work".... figuring out how to arrange them to tell the story in a "TOS style", how to keep the audience engaged, and deciding what the story is that the original author is trying to tell. After that I work on "flushing out" the original story and deciding if anything should be added to make it compelling. (sometimes this is a b or c storyline, or adding details to the original.)

This is the step where the "differences" would come in. Whatever "flushing out" or actual new material is added makes the differences. For instance, one of my "flushing out" came from discussions with Shirley back when she published the original. The idea that Chekov was beaming down into heavily McCarthy-era-red-scare-America never occurred to her. (she issued a four letter word when I pointed it out). So when I wrote it this idea figured into it.

Part of the equation is deciding what to see and what not to see. A "story" focuses on TELLING you a story, while a film SHOWS you the story. One of the changes I made was to show Kirk getting tortured.

All of the above, especially choices, leads to both similarities and differences. For instance, it's unlikely that another writer would add the "Red Scare" issues I did (partly for Shirley and partly to honor Walter Koenig), or the other nods to Koenig I put in (because it was a "Chekov story"), but it's altogether possible that another writer would have chosen to show Kirk getting tortured or added the realities of the 1950s institutions that I knew from my LICSW background (and which I added partly to honor John Carrigan's father). Two writers can very well come up with ideas that similar. The "execution" of the idea is what makes it different.

Does that start to explain it?

Just another added note...since Rick, David and David based their script on the original story, Chekov probably doesn't even appear in the episode, rather than being one of the primary characters.
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Old June 28 2014, 06:04 PM   #43
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Re: Phase II begins re-filming "Mind Sifter"

Thanks for the youtube link to Chico's Padre. At the 1:24 mark it sounds like Cesar Romero is trying to do a James Doohan "Scotty" impersonation.
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Old June 28 2014, 09:33 PM   #44
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Re: Phase II begins re-filming "Mind Sifter"

Jay wrote: View Post
andriech wrote: View Post
Maurice (and thanks to Greg for letting me know to check this thread), the episode title was "Chico's Padre". I'd like to be bragging about it being on the "best of" DVD, but during a private tour of Paramount they explained that the TV shows during the time period were all shot on tape and stored incorrectly, By the time they realized it, they could only salvage a handful of episodes for each one so, say, "The Best of Bosom Buddies" was actually "The Bosom Buddies Episodes We Could Salvage, The Rest Are Lost Forever". (They literally said that about the "best of" DVDs.)
Since you gave the title, I found it!

http://www.rakuten.com/prod/chico-an...4yAL0V5C_D_BwE

You can actually see a clip of the episode here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsgDCdvJIfM

I had no idea you were only 14 when you wrote this. It's really great dialog. It's a crime that they didn't give you some credit especially since they didn't change a word! What unethical people!
The episode in question is on IMDB here (link).

The "Story By" credit for it is by a writer (link) with nine "Chico" credits to his name.

If this happened as Patty said it would have been a pretty big violation of standard business practices and the terms under which studios worked with the WGA west. If so, the big question is "why"? Why not just pay for the script like they would for any other assignment? Why risk a potential lawsuit? Curiouser and curiouser.
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Old June 28 2014, 09:43 PM   #45
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Re: Phase II begins re-filming "Mind Sifter"

Is it "flushing out" or "fleshing out" (in that context)?
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