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Old June 24 2014, 08:16 PM   #31
Shon T'Hara
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Re: Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

The simplest explanation is that Picard's a pompous jerk. It's not just his attitude towards human history but even other cultures, like in Who Watches the Watchers and Devil's Dude where he's so smug about not believing any of that god nonsense.
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Old June 24 2014, 08:19 PM   #32
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Re: Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

^ That's also possible.

Maybe that's why Q likes Picard so much - they're a lot alike!
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Old June 24 2014, 08:20 PM   #33
137th Gebirg
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Re: Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
sbk1234 wrote: View Post
I figured that much of this was simply Picard posturing for an alien species which whom he was trying to make a point and do some bluffing.
I would like to think so. If Picard was insulting Q, personally, and not the military as such, I'd have no problem with it.

Meaning: If it had been just some random soldier from the 20th century, I'd hope that Picard - arrogant as he is - would not have insulted them and their service, like he did with Q.

Besides, as we'd later learn, there were plenty of Picard ancestors who served in the military. Weren't there?
^^^ IIRC, that particular scene with Q in the US Marines uniform was a direct poke at the Oliver North/Iran Contra nonsense that was going down at around that time. Although he's shown with Captain's bars instead of the Lt. Col silver oakleaf. They probably didn't want to make it too obvious back then, but I'm pretty sure that's all that was about. DeLancie was so young back then...

Either way, it should have occurred to Picard that, if a being is advanced enough to chase down the newest and fastest flagship of the Federation, trap it in an energy net parsecs wide in any direction and suddenly appear in its most sensitive command center with full shields up and without the apparent assistance of a conventional transporter, posturing and bluffing probably won't work...
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Old June 24 2014, 08:30 PM   #34
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Re: Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

I forgot about the Ollie North reference. Incorrect rank notwithstanding, wasn't Q's uniform a direct copy of North's?
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Old June 24 2014, 08:40 PM   #35
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Re: Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

I believe so, yes, right down to the tossed salad (medals) and the way he wore his cover.
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Old June 24 2014, 09:54 PM   #36
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Re: Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

BillJ wrote: View Post
Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Even the Chris Pine version of Kirk listens to Beastie Boys and drives fast cars (when he shouldn't) with a Nokia phone installed.
Why shouldn't he? This version of the character seems to have spent more time on Earth than his prime universe counterpart. I might have learned to play piano if my Mom hadn't died at while I was young and that may have had an impact on my life.
True, but he was born in space...and lives in a world, a far future where vehicles hover, ships warp to other worlds, and aliens exist. Yet, again, we can somehow still relate to him....even though his world differs in how people and customs are perceived.

It's like someone from our time - who grew up in the 1980s, 90s, or 21st Century - listening to artists such as Nancy Wilson, The Supremes, Frankie Valli or Johnny Mathis. Depending on who we are, we probably don't want to go back the 1950s or 1960s, yet there are still some things (e.g. music or films) that we like from that time period. And, those aspects (i.e. music, films) may be things someone from that time period - if they were to hypothetically visit 'us' in 2014 - may be things that people from that time period would still find relatable.

With Picard and his crew, especially the Picard (and crew) from "Encounter at Farpoint," they would stand out probably a lot more in San Francisco if they were the ones who had to retrieve whales from the 20th Century. The smugness would probably be called out many times....if they - Picard and co. - didn't 'adapt' like Kirk and crew attempted to do.
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Old June 24 2014, 10:18 PM   #37
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Re: Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post

True, but he was born in space...and lives in a world, a far future where vehicles hover, ships warp to other worlds, and aliens exist.
Yet motorcycles still exist...
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Old June 24 2014, 10:20 PM   #38
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Re: Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
With Picard and his crew, especially the Picard (and crew) from "Encounter at Farpoint," they would stand out probably a lot more in San Francisco if they were the ones who had to retrieve whales from the 20th Century. The smugness would probably be called out many times....if they - Picard and co. - didn't 'adapt' like Kirk and crew attempted to do.
And interestingly, look how well Data did in Time's Arrow in adapting to the 19th century! He appeared to do far better than Picard & Co. in spite of his strange appearance. (Though I always wondered where Picard and Friends got all their snappy clothes from. At least Data won a boatload of money with which he could have bought them!)
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Old June 24 2014, 10:42 PM   #39
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Re: Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

Shon T'Hara wrote: View Post
The simplest explanation is that Picard's a pompous jerk. It's not just his attitude towards human history but even other cultures, like in Who Watches the Watchers and Devil's Dude where he's so smug about not believing any of that god nonsense.
Really have to say that this is the best explanation. Picard, and for the most part the entire cast, for the early part of TNG and even some hints of it later on, were all really aloof and pompous about their beliefs, thinking themselves more enlightened and superior to the rest.
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Old June 25 2014, 03:28 AM   #40
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Re: Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

Shon T'Hara wrote: View Post
The simplest explanation is that Picard's a pompous jerk. It's not just his attitude towards human history but even other cultures, like in Who Watches the Watchers and Devil's Dude where he's so smug about not believing any of that god nonsense.
Well, in his defense, Picard was not a god and Ardra was a fake so he had every reason to not want those populations deceived.

I'm noticing a theme in the posts from people who are more critical of Picard that I'd like for you all to clarify: Is it a matter of style or attitude that you object to, or is it his intellectual positions?
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Old June 25 2014, 03:36 AM   #41
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Re: Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

PhoenixClass wrote: View Post

I'm noticing a theme in the posts from people who are more critical of Picard that I'd like for you all to clarify: Is it a matter of style or attitude that you object to, or is it his intellectual positions?
Definitely attitude. One of the things that eventually led me to not liking the character as much, was his handling of Worf during "Reunion". At the end of the episode, he reprimands Worf for handling the murder of his spouse in the way of his people.

It showed me that Picard had no real respect for other cultures. It's where the differences with TOS really began to show. In TOS, they were out learning about the universe. In TNG, they came across as missionaries teaching the unwashed masses how great humanity was.
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Old June 25 2014, 03:45 AM   #42
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Re: Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

PhoenixClass wrote: View Post

I'm noticing a theme in the posts from people who are more critical of Picard that I'd like for you all to clarify: Is it a matter of style or attitude that you object to, or is it his intellectual positions?
His attitude. As much as I love TNG, early on and even in the later seasons, Picard and the senior officers seemed like a bunch of smug assholes spouting the later Roddenberry ideals of utopia and advancement of humanity, and how superior they were to the people of old. Just watch The Neutral Zone and see how he, and the rest, talk to the people who they just unfroze.
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Old June 25 2014, 03:49 AM   #43
BillJ
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Re: Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

Last Redshirt wrote: View Post
PhoenixClass wrote: View Post

I'm noticing a theme in the posts from people who are more critical of Picard that I'd like for you all to clarify: Is it a matter of style or attitude that you object to, or is it his intellectual positions?
His attitude. As much as I love TNG, early on and even in the later seasons, Picard and the senior officers seemed like a bunch of smug assholes spouting the later Roddenberry ideals of utopia and advancement of humanity, and how superior they were to the people of old. Just watch The Neutral Zone and see how he, and the rest, talk to the people who they just unfroze.
Much like Jellico in "Chain of Command", I tend to give Picard a pass here. He was on the cusp of possible war with the Romulans and the 20th century humans really did represent a distraction.
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Old June 25 2014, 03:52 AM   #44
Last Redshirt
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Re: Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

BillJ wrote: View Post
Last Redshirt wrote: View Post
PhoenixClass wrote: View Post

I'm noticing a theme in the posts from people who are more critical of Picard that I'd like for you all to clarify: Is it a matter of style or attitude that you object to, or is it his intellectual positions?
His attitude. As much as I love TNG, early on and even in the later seasons, Picard and the senior officers seemed like a bunch of smug assholes spouting the later Roddenberry ideals of utopia and advancement of humanity, and how superior they were to the people of old. Just watch The Neutral Zone and see how he, and the rest, talk to the people who they just unfroze.
Much like Jellico in "Chain of Command", I tend to give Picard a pass here. He was on the cusp of possible war with the Romulans and the 20th century humans really did represent a distraction.
But wasn't what he said to them before the whole thing with the Romulans? Or is my memory of the episode not up to par? The Neutral Zone isn't very high on my list of episodes to rewatch.
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Old June 25 2014, 03:54 AM   #45
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Re: Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

PhoenixClass wrote: View Post
Is it a matter of style or attitude that you object to, or is it his intellectual positions?
Really it's the man's attitude. In somewhat similar situations the other Captain come off (at least initially) as humbler, polite and more reasonable.

Perhaps it's in part because the other Captains get off their ships more, what people write about Picard is true, he's pompous and arrogant.


BillJ wrote: View Post
... his handling of Worf during "Reunion". At the end of the episode, he reprimands Worf for handling the murder of his spouse in the way of his people.
If events in Amok Time had gone differently, would Kirk have officially reprimanded Spock for fighting and killing Stonn?

Worf didn't do things as Picard would have done, Picard apparently could not understand this and reprimanded Worf.


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