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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 24 2014, 04:48 PM   #16
BillJ
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Re: Why didnt they include a Khan flashback in STID?

Khan 2.0 wrote: View Post
The scene focused on Cumberbatch's crying face for absolutely ages could've benefitted from being broken up and cut away from.
yes exactly...had his VO over the flashback scenes..
Maybe? But then all I can think about is the hatchet job the director's cut of The Undiscovered Country was. With the faces of the conspirators popping up in the middle of what was a very emotional scene.

I think I'd rather keep the flashbacks out of Into Darkness.
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Old June 24 2014, 05:00 PM   #17
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Re: Why didnt they include a Khan flashback in STID?

Well, mileage varies. But I think whoever they'd have cast as Khan... to me, that scene in the brig needed us to see more. More to sell the reveal about his actual name. More to counteract the John Harrison mould Cumberbatch's casting fits.

It would've silenced the critique about possibly having kept him that way... a rogue Starfleet agent. Engineered or not.

My attitude to that scene is, "Khan?!? Really? Prove it." And that must be so in the minds of the writers too. So much so, that later in the film they have to produce Nimoy Spock to back it up. Only suddenly saying his full name kind of compounds the issue.

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Old June 24 2014, 05:19 PM   #18
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Re: Why didnt they include a Khan flashback in STID?

I don't know. In general, I don't think recastings require an in-universe explanation. And when you've already recast everybody else, it might seem odd to make a big deal out of one particular bit of recasting.

Trying to explain why Cumberbatch doesn't look like Montalban just begs the question of why Pine doesn't look exactly like Shatner, why Pegg doesn't look exactly like Doohan, etc. Better not to raise the issue altogether.

A willing suspension of disbelief can go a long ways . . . .
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Old June 24 2014, 05:30 PM   #19
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Re: Why didnt they include a Khan flashback in STID?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post

A willing suspension of disbelief can go a long ways . . . .
+1
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Old June 24 2014, 07:38 PM   #20
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Re: Why didnt they include a Khan flashback in STID?

But the crew cast in the main bear at least a passing resemblance to their original counterparts, which maintains the suspension of disbelief. Cumerbatch does not. At all. And neither does his portrayal of the character. It's one of the movies biggest problems.

Having said that I love STID and still get a lot of enjoyment out of BC's performance, but it just seemed to almost undo the great work they'd put in in assembling the crew cast so well.
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Old June 24 2014, 07:44 PM   #21
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Re: Why didnt they include a Khan flashback in STID?

My oldest daughter, 14, loved STID. She never saw "Space Seed" or TWOK before STID. Cumberbatch is her Khan and she's cool with it. Might was well try to explain to her why the TOS Khan looks different than Cumberbatch. It works both ways, after all.

Further, why would it add anything to the story to use precious screen time try to explain the difference in Khan's looks? Might as well take a moment to explain why nuKirk has blue eyes, too. And let's not even start on Chekov. Where is the line drawn?
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Old June 24 2014, 08:08 PM   #22
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Re: Why didnt they include a Khan flashback in STID?

Chekov is no problem at all, since he wasn't even a twinkle in his father's eye when the timelines diverged.
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Old June 24 2014, 09:10 PM   #23
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Re: Why didnt they include a Khan flashback in STID?

Franklin wrote: View Post
Where is the line drawn?
At the casting of Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan.

The colour of Kirks eye's is a minor discrepancy that this 40 year old Trek fan had never really noticed until I frequented these boards.
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Old June 24 2014, 09:26 PM   #24
Greg Cox
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Re: Why didnt they include a Khan flashback in STID?

Smellmet wrote: View Post
But the crew cast in the main bear at least a passing resemblance to their original counterparts, which maintains the suspension of disbelief. Cumerbatch does not. At all. And neither does his portrayal of the character. It's one of the movies biggest problems.
.
I don't know. I still think it would be jarring to see a clip of Montalban in the rebooted Trek. "Hey, just when you're getting used to the new Trek, we're going show you a clip from the old version with the other actors."

Honestly, that sounds more distracting than casting Cumberbatch. And less conducive to maintaining that suspension of disbelief.

Better to just pretend that Khan always looked like Cumberbatch, the same way we pretend that Uhura always looked like Zoe Saldana . . .
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Old June 24 2014, 09:39 PM   #25
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Re: Why didnt they include a Khan flashback in STID?

Although there is no canonical information about Uhura's age, she is presumably younger than Kirk by more than nine months. So, as with Chekov, she is not genetically identical to her Prime Universe counterpart and doesn't have to look the same.
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Old June 24 2014, 10:10 PM   #26
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Re: Why didnt they include a Khan flashback in STID?

I know someone's said it on here before, and I know it wasn't really possible, but if they'd have cast the guy who played the Kelvin captain in ST09, that would have done the trick for me. He would have made a good Khan looks wise at least.
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Old June 24 2014, 10:10 PM   #27
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Re: Why didnt they include a Khan flashback in STID?

Franklin wrote: View Post
Where is the line drawn?
As long as it's drawn well before we get to "Why Spock's nose is the wrong shape," I'm good.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post

A willing suspension of disbelief can go a long ways . . . .
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Old June 24 2014, 10:53 PM   #28
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Re: Why didnt they include a Khan flashback in STID?

M'Sharak wrote: View Post

Greg Cox wrote: View Post

A willing suspension of disbelief can go a long ways . . . .


+1000
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Old June 25 2014, 12:10 AM   #29
Hober Mallow
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Re: Why didnt they include the IDW Khan flashback in STID?

Khan 2.0 wrote: View Post
Finally read the IDW Khan series graphic novel. Why couldn't they integrate the flashback discovery of the BB and Khans makeover in a brief scene with abit of CG Montalban? something similar to Spock Primes flashback mindmeld in ST09 wouldve worked great
Continuity porn to satisfy six or seven geeks' psychological need to have several totally disparate TV and film productions all fit together into one cohesive whole and reinforce the delusion that Star Trek is somehow "real" is definitely what ID needed to be a mainstream success.
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Old June 25 2014, 12:20 AM   #30
Set Harth
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Re: Why didnt they include a Khan flashback in STID?

ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
Images should've flashed by of a dark-haired younger Marcus boarding the Botany Bay with a security team
Marcus would have been, what, a year younger? He would probably look pretty much the same.

Greg Cox wrote:
I don't know. I still think it would be jarring to see a clip of Montalban in the rebooted Trek. "Hey, just when you're getting used to the new Trek, we're going show you a clip from the old version with the other actors."
By the same token, just when the audience is getting used to the new Spock, it should be jarring to see Leonard Nimoy.
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