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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 22 2014, 07:30 PM   #106
YellowSubmarine
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Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
So if THE VOYAGE HOME showed Earth to be destroyed by the probe, Kirk would then be in the wrong to go back in time and prevent that from happening because he'd be "destroying" a universe where Earth was devastated?
He didn't change the past, only the future. He brought live whales to the present, which is no different than a historian following the protocols bringing information. Any changes they inflicted on the past timeline were unintentional, they didn't go back to change the past.

How about Phlox killing the temporal parasites in Twilight to save the Earth? That's ambiguous, but one could say it is similar... If the people on New Vulcan feel like the humans on Ceti Alpha V, I could see some of them doing something. Too bad Nero's dead, so they can't try putting temporal parasites in his head. A poetic solution, given how he likes to put parasites into people's heads... I don't think he'd have destroyed Vulcan if every morning his XO had to retell him how they ended up on a quest to destroy Vulcan.

(Too bad the colony was set by Spock Prime, which rules out it being on Ceti Alpha V as well...)
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Old June 22 2014, 09:34 PM   #107
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Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

Welll, they did take Gillian out of the past and introduced the formula for transparent aluminum. Assuming TVH wasn't a predestination paradox I'd say Our Heroes got lucky.

Though, being a multiverse fan, I'd also say they switched timelines.
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Old June 22 2014, 11:58 PM   #108
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Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
IMO delivering that hammer blow to the Vulcan race showed astute artistic vision. Being 'Vulcan' heretofore meant what? Logic? Mystic? Repression? Fanatic? Just plain snotty? CNTL-ALT-DEL = welcome.
Uh... this isn't making sense?
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Old June 23 2014, 04:48 AM   #109
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Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

I think Austen's argument was that making Vulcans an endangered species made them more interesting, IHO, than they'd been to that point.
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Old June 23 2014, 05:04 AM   #110
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Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

The one question I have for the "go back and save Vulcan" scenario is just how in the hell are the time travelers supposed to stop Nero from destroying Vulcan?

I mean every time this is brought up the people who suggest it seem to forget that Nero outguns just about everything in the 23rd century.

So unless there is another all powerful starship they can get their hands on they're kind of screwed.
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Old June 23 2014, 05:12 AM   #111
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Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

I imagine the solution involves contacting PrimeSpock while he's still in the Prime timeline to prevent Nero from jumping in time to begin with.

Of course that creates a paradox.
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Old June 23 2014, 01:18 PM   #112
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Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
The one question I have for the "go back and save Vulcan" scenario is just how in the hell are the time travelers supposed to stop Nero from destroying Vulcan?

I mean every time this is brought up the people who suggest it seem to forget that Nero outguns just about everything in the 23rd century.

So unless there is another all powerful starship they can get their hands on they're kind of screwed.
Everybody's looking at this all wrong. You don't take on Nero. You don't try to save Vulcan in 2258. By accident or by design, the Enterprise & crew find themselves back in 2233 and have an opportunity to save the U.S.S. Kelvin. How? They seal the original "lightning storm in space" exit point BEFORE the Narada came through in the first place.

Spock would ironically be the one who'd debate with Kirk about not doing this... even though he'd ultimately have as much - if not more to gain.

In leading up to that, you just continue to portray the universe Nero created descending into chaos and destruction. Then have fate hand the Captain more than self-interest as a motive. Somebody aboard the U.S.S. Kelvin becomes as important as Edith Keeler... but instead of a necessary destined death, the more straight-forward absence of a figure who's continued existence would've been a positive influence on history.

Edited to add: Narada is lost, never to be seen or heard from again. While Nimoy Spock still arrives in 2258 to settle down in his own past. Hiding himself away on Vulcan and keeping out of history's way... aside from a chance meeting with Sarek. Meanwhile elsewhere we see the Enterprise in orbit and aboard is Quinto Spock serving under Greenwood's Pike. Coming from Earth to rendezvous is the U.S.S. Farragut and there among her crew we find Kirk, Bones and Scotty. Recent graduates Sulu, Uhura and Chekov are transferred over from the Farragut. Before heading off, Kirk catches his first sight of the Enterprise... Bones says something to snap him out of an eerie feeling.
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Old June 23 2014, 06:35 PM   #113
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Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
The one question I have for the "go back and save Vulcan" scenario is just how in the hell are the time travelers supposed to stop Nero from destroying Vulcan?

I mean every time this is brought up the people who suggest it seem to forget that Nero outguns just about everything in the 23rd century.

So unless there is another all powerful starship they can get their hands on they're kind of screwed.
Everybody's looking at this all wrong. You don't take on Nero. You don't try to save Vulcan in 2258. By accident or by design, the Enterprise & crew find themselves back in 2233 and have an opportunity to save the U.S.S. Kelvin. How? They seal the original "lightning storm in space" exit point BEFORE the Narada came through in the first place.
And they would do this how exactly, last time I checked the federation doesn't have time hole sealing tech and they have to do it in the very little time the thing existed before shooting Nero out.

In leading up to that, you just continue to portray the universe Nero created descending into chaos and destruction. Then have fate hand the Captain more than self-interest as a motive. Somebody aboard the U.S.S. Kelvin becomes as important as Edith Keeler... but instead of a necessary destined death, the more straight-forward absence of a figure who's continued existence would've been a positive influence on history.
So basically a bunch of fanwank bullshit to justify getting a bunch of meaningless sci-fi trivia reinstated becuase some fans have trouble letting go of minutia.
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Old June 23 2014, 07:02 PM   #114
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Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

Didn't they dump a bunch of warp cores into the vortex to seal it? I think that would do the trick. Dangerous, but if they wanted to pull a DAYS OF FUTURE PAST then that would be their only option.
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Old June 23 2014, 07:48 PM   #115
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Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Didn't they dump a bunch of warp cores into the vortex to seal it?
No they used the explosion to push them out of blackhole, they didn't seal crap.

And it wouldn't work anyway becuase THEY. ONLY. HAVE. SECONDS. to close it before Nero kills all of them.
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Old June 23 2014, 07:51 PM   #116
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Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

I do so love my fanwank bullshit. No better way to celebrate 50 years than a nice ole bit of fanwank bullshit.
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Old June 23 2014, 07:51 PM   #117
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Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Didn't they dump a bunch of warp cores into the vortex to seal it?
No they used the explosion to push them out of blackhole, they didn't seal crap.

And it wouldn't work anyway becuase THEY. ONLY. HAVE. SECONDS. to close it before Nero kills all of them.
Insurrection is the one where they use the warp core to seal a subspace tear.
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Old June 23 2014, 10:20 PM   #118
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Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

They just need cyan matter to invert it. Or something. See? Easy.
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Old June 24 2014, 03:20 AM   #119
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Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

Assuming you can time travel back in this timeline... you just have Spock detonate the Red Matter right after exit. Vulcan survives.
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Old June 24 2014, 03:43 AM   #120
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Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
THEY. ONLY. HAVE. SECONDS. to close it before Nero kills all of them.

...Shatner?
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