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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 10 2014, 09:52 PM   #1
KaineMorrison
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Regarding ShipBuilding...

How long would the Enterprise NCC 1701-E have taken to be built from Design to fully Operational?
It seems like it was consructed fairly quickly.
I know that it must have been at least being worked on at the time of Generations as there is no physical way for them to have completed from Brainstorming to Design to Operational.
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Old July 10 2014, 10:05 PM   #2
Ithekro
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

It is assumed to have been under design since at least the later stages of the Galaxy-class Project as there was already mention of some planned warp core design changes being thought about for the next design of starship.
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Old July 10 2014, 10:33 PM   #3
C.E. Evans
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

Yeah, I tend to think that the Sovereign Class Development Project probably began not long after "Encounter At Farpoint" and that the prototype USS Sovereign was launched while TNG was still on the air.

As far as the Enterprise-E, I think that it took a couple of years to build her (2370-2372), but she had a different name when her keel was first laid.
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Old July 10 2014, 11:40 PM   #4
KaineMorrison
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Yeah, I tend to think that the Sovereign Class Development Project probably began not long after "Encounter At Farpoint" and that the prototype USS Sovereign was launched while TNG was still on the air.

As far as the Enterprise-E, I think that it took a couple of years to build her (2370-2372), but she had a different name when her keel was first laid.
Does the "E" still house families like the "D" did, being that it seems more to be a "warship", than an "exploration/research" ship?
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Old July 11 2014, 12:44 AM   #5
BillJ
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

The Galaxy-class had a twenty year development cycle, mentioned in The Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual. If we give that any kind of weight, the Sovereign-class was already being designed before the U.S.S. Galaxy launched in 2363.
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Old July 11 2014, 12:49 AM   #6
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

KaineMorrison wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Yeah, I tend to think that the Sovereign Class Development Project probably began not long after "Encounter At Farpoint" and that the prototype USS Sovereign was launched while TNG was still on the air.

As far as the Enterprise-E, I think that it took a couple of years to build her (2370-2372), but she had a different name when her keel was first laid.
Does the "E" still house families like the "D" did, being that it seems more to be a "warship", than an "exploration/research" ship?
I never got that impression. At one point I think I remember Riker say she was made in preparation for the Dominion War, but I might have my wires crossed with a statement Sisko made about DS9 before the Klingon attack.

We never see families aboard the E. We do we a LOT of empty corridors though. More telling is that in First Contact there are no assimilated spouses or children. Definitely a no for a family ship.
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Old July 11 2014, 01:01 AM   #7
KaineMorrison
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
KaineMorrison wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Yeah, I tend to think that the Sovereign Class Development Project probably began not long after "Encounter At Farpoint" and that the prototype USS Sovereign was launched while TNG was still on the air.

As far as the Enterprise-E, I think that it took a couple of years to build her (2370-2372), but she had a different name when her keel was first laid.
Does the "E" still house families like the "D" did, being that it seems more to be a "warship", than an "exploration/research" ship?
I never got that impression. At one point I think I remember Riker say she was made in preparation for the Dominion War, but I might have my wires crossed with a statement Sisko made about DS9 before the Klingon attack.

We never see families aboard the E. We do we a LOT of empty corridors though. More telling is that in First Contact there are no assimilated spouses or children. Definitely a no for a family ship.
This was my thinking as well.

I also feel that the Sovereign Class would have been thought up in retaliation to the Borg Threat. Either from Q Who or even Best of Both Worlds.
Probably both.
They were coming up with ideas on how to combat the Borg, but it wasn't until BobW that they knew how to counteract the Borg and incorporated this into the final Sovereign Design.
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Old July 11 2014, 01:17 AM   #8
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

I think FC takes place during the general unrest of the Klingon War/Dominion Cold War, considering her location at the start of the film, I guess Enterprise's mission was to keep an eye on the Romulans, and as such was probably not doing much deep space exploring.

I suppose the real question is, was she a deep space explorer at all, or more of a warship intended to quickly go to various spots and fly the Federation flag (which is essentially what she's doing in INS during the Dominion War).
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Old July 11 2014, 02:28 AM   #9
C.E. Evans
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

KaineMorrison wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Yeah, I tend to think that the Sovereign Class Development Project probably began not long after "Encounter At Farpoint" and that the prototype USS Sovereign was launched while TNG was still on the air.

As far as the Enterprise-E, I think that it took a couple of years to build her (2370-2372), but she had a different name when her keel was first laid.
Does the "E" still house families like the "D" did, being that it seems more to be a "warship", than an "exploration/research" ship?
The missions for both the Galaxy- and Sovereign-classes were never really told onscreen, although its generally believed (mostly from off-screen sources) that the Enterprise-D was meant solely for exploration. To that extent, the actual designs could really intend to be just large multipurpose starships, with the former designed to carry a lot of passengers and the latter not.

BillJ wrote: View Post
The Galaxy-class had a twenty year development cycle, mentioned in The Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual. If we give that any kind of weight, the Sovereign-class was already being designed before the U.S.S. Galaxy launched in 2363.
The development time of the Galaxy-class could be atypical for most new starship designs. Most of its systems might have been new at the time, requiring much more testing and trial & error than what is usual.

Subsequent new starship projects might have been able to incorporate some systems that were first pioneered by the Galaxy-class and go from initial objectives proposal to launched prototype in less than half the time.
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Old July 11 2014, 04:48 AM   #10
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post

The development time of the Galaxy-class could be atypical for most new starship designs. Most of its systems might have been new at the time, requiring much more testing and trial & error than what is usual.

Subsequent new starship projects might have been able to incorporate some systems that were first pioneered by the Galaxy-class and go from initial objectives proposal to launched prototype in less than half the time.
Even if you work under that theory, it still puts the beginnings of Sovereign-class development before or around the launch of the Galaxy-class.
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Old July 11 2014, 06:17 AM   #11
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

The Sovereign Project could have taken just as long to get from drawing board to space as the Galaxy-class which took almost 15 years to get from drawing board to space. (2343 to 2357 when USS Galaxy is launched). But perhaps not as long in the prototype testing as the Project would use more tried and tested equipment than the Galaxy-class did. It took five years before USS Yamato and Enterprise were launched after Galaxy. Was probably not as long between the launch of Sovereign to the launch of Enterprise...assuming they didn't rename Sovereign to Enterprise on launch.
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Old July 11 2014, 01:36 PM   #12
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

Ithekro wrote: View Post
The Sovereign Project could have taken just as long to get from drawing board to space as the Galaxy-class which took almost 15 years to get from drawing board to space. (2343 to 2357 when USS Galaxy is launched). But perhaps not as long in the prototype testing as the Project would use more tried and tested equipment than the Galaxy-class did. It took five years before USS Yamato and Enterprise were launched after Galaxy. Was probably not as long between the launch of Sovereign to the launch of Enterprise...assuming they didn't rename Sovereign to Enterprise on launch.

I don't know guys. In First Contact we suddenly see a ton of new designs. I find it difficult to believe that all of these ships were 'in the works' for decades then all happened to roll off the assembly line at the same time. My personal theory is that it must be no more thatn a few years from design to service, albeit that does stretch credulity compared to the build cycle from today's Navy.
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Old July 11 2014, 02:21 PM   #13
grendelsbayne
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Ithekro wrote: View Post
The Sovereign Project could have taken just as long to get from drawing board to space as the Galaxy-class which took almost 15 years to get from drawing board to space. (2343 to 2357 when USS Galaxy is launched). But perhaps not as long in the prototype testing as the Project would use more tried and tested equipment than the Galaxy-class did. It took five years before USS Yamato and Enterprise were launched after Galaxy. Was probably not as long between the launch of Sovereign to the launch of Enterprise...assuming they didn't rename Sovereign to Enterprise on launch.

I don't know guys. In First Contact we suddenly see a ton of new designs. I find it difficult to believe that all of these ships were 'in the works' for decades then all happened to roll off the assembly line at the same time. My personal theory is that it must be no more thatn a few years from design to service, albeit that does stretch credulity compared to the build cycle from today's Navy.
With the technology available to them, it shouldn't take more than a year, maybe two at the absolute most to build any ship. It's only the design process which would take a long time, since you want to make absolutely certain you don't overlook any stupid mistakes. It's possible the normal design process can last up to twenty years, although that actually sounds pretty long to me, but I don't see any reason why it would be truly necessary for it to take that long. If we assume that the explosion of new ship designs is largely a reaction to the Borg threat (and later the Dominion threat), which is what we're usually told on screen, then there have been eight years of development time since the Federation's first contact with the Borg.

If we assume that some of the 'new' designs are actually modifications/repurposing of older designs, maybe in some cases even pulling old ideas out of the archives that were rejected in the past because the Federation doesn't build 'warships', so that many of them wouldn't even have to have been designed from the ground up, and that the truly brand new designs are mostly smaller, simpler ships like the Defiant (which according to Memory Alpha was designed in 2366 and launched in 2370) then it seems to me like they had plenty of time to get all those new classes out there.

There's also no reason to assume that all these new designs rolled off the assembly line just in time for FC. Some of them could have been serving for years already and we just never saw them before. I don't recall any really huge fleet battle scenes where you would expect to see that sort of thing until the height of the Dominion War (after FC).
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Old July 11 2014, 03:51 PM   #14
KaineMorrison
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Ithekro wrote: View Post
The Sovereign Project could have taken just as long to get from drawing board to space as the Galaxy-class which took almost 15 years to get from drawing board to space. (2343 to 2357 when USS Galaxy is launched). But perhaps not as long in the prototype testing as the Project would use more tried and tested equipment than the Galaxy-class did. It took five years before USS Yamato and Enterprise were launched after Galaxy. Was probably not as long between the launch of Sovereign to the launch of Enterprise...assuming they didn't rename Sovereign to Enterprise on launch.

I don't know guys. In First Contact we suddenly see a ton of new designs. I find it difficult to believe that all of these ships were 'in the works' for decades then all happened to roll off the assembly line at the same time. My personal theory is that it must be no more thatn a few years from design to service, albeit that does stretch credulity compared to the build cycle from today's Navy.
With the technology available to them, it shouldn't take more than a year, maybe two at the absolute most to build any ship. It's only the design process which would take a long time, since you want to make absolutely certain you don't overlook any stupid mistakes. It's possible the normal design process can last up to twenty years, although that actually sounds pretty long to me, but I don't see any reason why it would be truly necessary for it to take that long. If we assume that the explosion of new ship designs is largely a reaction to the Borg threat (and later the Dominion threat), which is what we're usually told on screen, then there have been eight years of development time since the Federation's first contact with the Borg.

If we assume that some of the 'new' designs are actually modifications/repurposing of older designs, maybe in some cases even pulling old ideas out of the archives that were rejected in the past because the Federation doesn't build 'warships', so that many of them wouldn't even have to have been designed from the ground up, and that the truly brand new designs are mostly smaller, simpler ships like the Defiant (which according to Memory Alpha was designed in 2366 and launched in 2370) then it seems to me like they had plenty of time to get all those new classes out there.

There's also no reason to assume that all these new designs rolled off the assembly line just in time for FC. Some of them could have been serving for years already and we just never saw them before. I don't recall any really huge fleet battle scenes where you would expect to see that sort of thing until the height of the Dominion War (after FC).
It would need to take at LEAST 2 years to run all of the wires, cables, relays and everything else in the Ship from one end to the other, from top to bottom.
Then testing every connection to make sure no wires are faulty.

And the only way to do that properly os to do it while the Sip is still in "Skeleton Mode" as I call it.Once the Hulls and Walls are in, it would be nearly impossible to replace a really long length of cable.
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Old July 11 2014, 04:47 PM   #15
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

My belief is that the Sovereign design was undergoing manufacture well before 1701-E came into being, and that the Enterprise name was simply transfered to one of the upcoming ships-of-the-line after the destruction of her predecessor. Chances are good that if 1701-D hadn't gone down, then the same ship that ultimately became the new Enterprise would simply have launched under a different name (and obviously with a different crew as well).

So many people assume that the Sovereign was rushed out quickly, but in reality the quick turnover between 1701-D and 1701-E was probably more like a string of coincidental events. 1701-D's destruction simply happened in close proximity to the launch of the Sovereign class vessels.
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