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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 13 2014, 04:16 AM   #16
Greg Cox
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Re: I have a confession to make

It's funny. I first saw Nemesis the day after seeing Attack of the Clones for the first time (yes, I was coming a bit late to that party), so I spent most of the movie comparing Nemesis not to other Trek movies but to Clones, which was still fresh in my mind.

I remember thinking that Clones had better SFX and action, but Nemesis had much better dialogue and characterization.
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Old June 13 2014, 06:40 AM   #17
GalaxyX
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Re: I have a confession to make

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
It's funny. I first saw Nemesis the day after seeing Attack of the Clones for the first time (yes, I was coming a bit late to that party), so I spent most of the movie comparing Nemesis not to other Trek movies but to Clones, which was still fresh in my mind.

I remember thinking that Clones had better SFX and action, but Nemesis had much better dialogue and characterization.
Both movies were terrible, but AOTC at least had some decent CGI eyecandy. I loved the Corruscant scenes, but that's about it. I mostly tuned out of the rest of the film.

Nemesis on the other hand, well, what's the only thing I can say I honestly like about it? I like the fact that the Enterprise is able to take many hits to its shields without the interior ripping apart at the seams (as every TNG - post TNG Trek portrays Starship combat)

The biggest difference is: I had zero emotional investment in AOTC (or any Star Wars for that matter).

I was, however, hoping for a kick ass TNG movie, and I honestly thought Nemesis would be it. How sadly mistaken I was
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Old June 13 2014, 02:14 PM   #18
RainKing
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Re: I have a confession to make

For me, Nemesis and Insurrection are like having a couple of loved ones in prison - I don't want to go back there, but I do. When it's over, I'm annoyed and even a little angry, but I got to see the faces I love.

I just don't know how those two movies were made. Millions of dollars, established/beloved characters, the entire Star Trek universe to work with - and those scripts, to me, conjure the image of a drunkard throwing a handful of #$@% against a wall just before he slips and falls in his own sick.

That being said, I will be watching them both again.
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Old June 14 2014, 07:42 AM   #19
GalaxyX
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Re: I have a confession to make

RainKing wrote: View Post
For me, Nemesis and Insurrection are like having a couple of loved ones in prison - I don't want to go back there, but I do. When it's over, I'm annoyed and even a little angry, but I got to see the faces I love.

I just don't know how those two movies were made. Millions of dollars, established/beloved characters, the entire Star Trek universe to work with - and those scripts, to me, conjure the image of a drunkard throwing a handful of #$@% against a wall just before he slips and falls in his own sick.

That being said, I will be watching them both again.
You're a sucker for punishment man.

I've seen Insurrection about 3-4 times in total?

Nemesis about 3 times.

That was enough for me. I don't think I'll be revisiting those movies anytime soon.
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Old June 14 2014, 11:49 AM   #20
teacake
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Re: I have a confession to make

I dutifully watch NEM and INS once a year.

I'm a Trek hypocrite with TMP though, could only hack that twice. Ever.

Everything else is varying degrees of glorious.
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Old June 14 2014, 03:43 PM   #21
borgboy
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Re: I have a confession to make

I like Nemesis, a lot even. It's flawed, but still enjoyable. As the last TNG movie, I think if the ending had been a little more upbeat it would be better remembered. Data dying and Picard's "family" scattering and his "son" dying - which brought up all the issues of all the other deaths in his family,it's pretty grim. Riker getting his own captaincy and marrying Troi were nice developments, but we needed more of that. At the least, let Beverly and Picard finally get together, and maybe do a little more with Wesley. With Shizon as the bad son, Wesley as the counterpart good son could've been a really neat theme to deal with. Give Picard a family, happy ending, heck, do the inevitable B4 as Data that was being telegraphed anyways.
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Old June 14 2014, 04:03 PM   #22
MacLeod
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Re: I have a confession to make

I don't think NEM is as bad as it is made out to be, but that's not to say the film isn't without issues, they could have dropped the whole b-4 sub-plot and the film I don't think would really have suffered..
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Old June 15 2014, 04:16 AM   #23
Pasi Nurminen
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Re: I have a confession to make

It would have worked better if the villain wasn't ultimately so cartoonish. Instead of blowing up Earth, if his objective had been more subtle, more nuanced.
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Old June 15 2014, 05:03 AM   #24
Captain Kathryn
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Re: I have a confession to make

I don't dislike Nemesis. Not my favorite...but I don't hate it.

I have a particular affinity for Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home and like most people, First Contact.

I enjoy the whale story. It makes me crack up! I don't care if some people think it's dumb. haha
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Old June 15 2014, 05:04 AM   #25
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Re: I have a confession to make

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
It would have worked better if the villain wasn't ultimately so cartoonish. Instead of blowing up Earth, if his objective had been more subtle, more nuanced.
Yeah he was a tad cartoony.

Very "I'm going to trick you into liking me!" and then "MWAHAHAHHA I TRICKED YOU GOOD! I shall now act EVIL!"
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Old June 15 2014, 05:07 AM   #26
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Re: I have a confession to make

And yeah...they shouldn't have killed Data. That was not cool. Not cool at all.
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Old June 15 2014, 05:09 AM   #27
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Re: I have a confession to make

I don't rank Nemesis very high on the movie scale. As I have said before, I have seen 500 films better than it. I rank them alongside the TNG Films, of which, Nemesis is my distant 2nd favorite. When I watch it, I turn off my inner-critic and just try to get lost in the story.

It's really a matter of taste, but I prefer seeing the movie where they are not simply facing an enemy that needs a better phaser or a more powerful weapon. I enjoy watching them as detectives and explorers. I prefer the movie that creates two cultures and gives equal weight to them both. I enjoy the moral conundrum and the prism of entertainment to reflect what has happened in real life, as Star Trek often does. That film is Star Trek: Insurrection, and I watch it, on average, once-a-week. The fact is the Ba'ku are conceptually a Dominion War response that doesn't screw DS9. We found the Borg in the Delta Quadrant, the Dominion in the Gamma, if we continue to explore, aren't there at least a few xenophobes in the audience, wondering what is next? Also, the tone of the movie is perfect because a reaction to death and loss is to rejoice when the darkness is over, to relish the little things in life. So Data pets a fish because he lost a friend in the war, that type of thing.

As for Nemesis, as I have said before, I like the interplay with Picard and Shinzon. I sometimes fast-forward the action scenes and just watch Picard meet him, Picard have dinner with Shinzon, Picard get captured by Shinzon, and then the Ready-Room scene. It's interesting. As for the action sequences, I wasn't into it in the movie theater and I certainly am not into it now. They are so anti-climatic because we know the Enterprise won't be destroyed and the only thing at stake is destroying the Enterprise and killing the crew. If Riker was killed in the bowels of the ship, if the action wasn't so poorly done, maybe I give them a second glance, but the action is truly terrible and too much of the movie is about the action. Consider me burned out on Star Trek action sequences where nothing is lost, they always win, and no one in the cast is ever hurt.

Anyway, those are my thoughts:

1. Insurrection
2. Nemesis
3. Generations
4. First Contact
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Old June 15 2014, 05:19 AM   #28
martok2112
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Re: I have a confession to make

Nemesis lover right here!
Flawed as the movie was, it is also my favorite of any of the TNG movies.

1. It actually looked and felt like a big screen movie, whereas the previous three TNG flicks looked more like overblown, two part TNG episodes. They certainly worked better on the small screen, full frame format, than they did as an attempt at big screen movies.

2. Jerry Goldsmith really delivered on a kick ass score. I loved the uptempo opening cue as the camera closes in on Romulus and the Imperial Senate. Got my blood going and my foot tapping. (I certainly liked it better than his opening theme to First Contact, which, in my very humble opinion, should've also sounded much more ominous ala Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, and then ended with its more uplifting and hopeful end titles music.)

3. Picard driving a dune buggy! To me, that was great....to see Picard do something that made most fanboys quiver...to see Picard do something fun, and have it end up in a cool action beat.

4. Shinzon, not so much for the character, but for the actor who portrayed him (Tom Hardy). I thought Hardy brought a very cool, naturalistic and understated edge to Shinzon. Much of what HaventGotALife stated was pretty much what I enjoyed about Shinzon and Picard. Those conversations...the dinner, Picard's capture, and the holographic meeting in Picard's ready room....those were some very well done scenes.

5. The space battle! HOLY SHIT! This thing took up practically the entire last half of the movie. And what I really loved about it....the fact that it wasn't "two battle effects shots, and twenty internal shots of the crew getting thrown around, announcing...'incoming fire'!" It was a full on, knock down, drag out, no holds barred space battle. The budget certainly reflected on this well.

6. The Enterprise/Scimitar ramming scene! Yes, there should've been no survivors whatsoever, but this was a pure-adrenaline, space-fantasy action moment that rocked both the big screen, and the Dolby units that supported its audio. This shot alone was worth the price of admission in my book.

7. The end titles (as per the DVD/Blu-ray versions). The end titles in the theatrical release, and the Official Soundtrack were, as usual, serene and understated. But the end titles as played in the DVD version screamed "big screen Trek epic"! To me, the score for Nemesis was the late, great Jerry Goldsmith's best score since "Star Trek The Motion Picture".

But, that's just me.... I was raving about the movie after I saw it theatrically on opening night. My friends were not so forgiving, and one even said: "Dude, we serious have got to get you to stop defending this movie." LOL!
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Old June 15 2014, 06:50 AM   #29
martok2112
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Re: I have a confession to make

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
It would have worked better if the villain wasn't ultimately so cartoonish. Instead of blowing up Earth, if his objective had been more subtle, more nuanced.
Yeah he was a tad cartoony.

Very "I'm going to trick you into liking me!" and then "MWAHAHAHHA I TRICKED YOU GOOD! I shall now act EVIL!"
"And EVIL will always triumph, because GOOD is DUMB!"
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Old June 15 2014, 07:00 AM   #30
borgboy
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Re: I have a confession to make

martok2112 wrote: View Post
Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
It would have worked better if the villain wasn't ultimately so cartoonish. Instead of blowing up Earth, if his objective had been more subtle, more nuanced.
Yeah he was a tad cartoony.

Very "I'm going to trick you into liking me!" and then "MWAHAHAHHA I TRICKED YOU GOOD! I shall now act EVIL!"
"And EVIL will always triumph, because GOOD is DUMB!"
Or as Mammy Yokum said, "Good is better than evil cause it's nicer."
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