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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 4 2014, 12:28 AM   #1
Destructor
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What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

I am going to watch Insurrection with some friends tonight and so I was thinking a few thoughts:

1. Did anyone else read the book by Michael Piller about the making of STIX? It was really interesting, but also frustrating because they had a lot of really good ideas for the film that ultimately never came to fruition.

2. Why oh why did they never finish the special effects shots in the collector at the end of the film? I am talking specifically about the background of the collector (which was supposed to be open space, which would have been cool, but ends up being, I think, the actual bluescreen they were using for those shots, which looks terrible), and the final 'de-aging' animation the main villain. Question: Would Insurrection have been a better film, had those FX shots been completed? Is a Director's Edition likely or possible?

3. What else should they have done? I think they had the core of a good movie in there, but it just fell sideways a bit. I think they should have a. dropped the Anij character; b. dropped Data's stupid subplot with the kid; c. I'm not sure they needed the 'holoship planning to take everyone away' element of the story- they could have moved directly to 'Federation admiral plotting to steal the radiation wholesale.
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Old July 4 2014, 01:06 AM   #2
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Ditch the S'ona. Made the film Starfleet vs. Starfleet (maybe Picard vs. Riker). Return to the concept that the planet was chock full of minerals that was the basis of the Federation's medical technology. Kill off one of the characters due to not having access to the mineral.
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Old July 4 2014, 04:50 AM   #3
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Destructor wrote: View Post
2. Why oh why did they never finish the special effects shots in the collector at the end of the film? I am talking specifically about the background of the collector (which was supposed to be open space, which would have been cool, but ends up being, I think, the actual bluescreen they were using for those shots
A misconception. The Son'a color scheme simply favors blue lights.
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Old July 4 2014, 04:58 AM   #4
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

If nothing else could be changed, I would have at least liked the Ba'ku to be likeable, and really in need, and not the arrogant pissants we got that didn't "need" anything.

I could have actually enjoyed the movie on another level.
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Old July 4 2014, 05:07 AM   #5
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

A better script and ILM doing the effects might have made all the difference. I intend to read Piller's FADE IN sometime. In short, was Piller's work basically compromised by other parties (studio execs, demands from actors, ect)? I know he had a lot of problems with VOY that he was forced to leave. It's a shame that the guy who made such a big impact in a positive way in Trek was eventually cast out the way he was. He deserved to leave the franchise on a better note than VOY or INSURRECTION.
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Old July 4 2014, 05:11 AM   #6
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

I think Insurrection had two major problems: having a locked in release date before hiring a writer and allowing Stewart and Spiner to have input on the script.

IIRC, in Fade In, Spiner told Piller that he didn't understand how to write Data.
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Old July 4 2014, 05:33 AM   #7
Destructor
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Tosk wrote: View Post
Destructor wrote: View Post
2. Why oh why did they never finish the special effects shots in the collector at the end of the film? I am talking specifically about the background of the collector (which was supposed to be open space, which would have been cool, but ends up being, I think, the actual bluescreen they were using for those shots
A misconception. The Son'a color scheme simply favors blue lights.
I can't tell if you are joking or not!

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
A better script and ILM doing the effects might have made all the difference. I intend to read Piller's FADE IN sometime. In short, was Piller's work basically compromised by other parties (studio execs, demands from actors, ect)? I know he had a lot of problems with VOY that he was forced to leave. It's a shame that the guy who made such a big impact in a positive way in Trek was eventually cast out the way he was. He deserved to leave the franchise on a better note than VOY or INSURRECTION.
FADE IN is interesting, I recommend it. I think it is a really interesting case study of an initial vision being diluted by too many voices, too many 'good ideas', and being diluted again by a rushed film with not enough time or money to execute the vision.
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Old July 4 2014, 05:56 AM   #8
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Destructor wrote: View Post
I am going to watch Insurrection with some friends tonight and so I was thinking a few thoughts:

1. Did anyone else read the book by Michael Piller about the making of STIX? It was really interesting, but also frustrating because they had a lot of really good ideas for the film that ultimately never came to fruition.
Actually, I have that file somewhere and never got around to reading it. But from what I know of it, yeah, it would have been a better movie had Piller had his way.

2. Why oh why did they never finish the special effects shots in the collector at the end of the film? I am talking specifically about the background of the collector (which was supposed to be open space, which would have been cool, but ends up being, I think, the actual bluescreen they were using for those shots, which looks terrible), and the final 'de-aging' animation the main villain. Question: Would Insurrection have been a better film, had those FX shots been completed? Is a Director's Edition likely or possible?
As Tosk said, it actually wasn't unfinished VFX, and honestly I never even noticed it until someone pointed it out. As for the Ru'afo de-aging scene, it reminded me of the cut scene in TWOK where Khan's baby admires the Genesis device before it explodes and kills him. It's just creepy, and I'm glad it was cut.

3. What else should they have done? I think they had the core of a good movie in there, but it just fell sideways a bit. I think they should have a. dropped the Anij character; b. dropped Data's stupid subplot with the kid; c. I'm not sure they needed the 'holoship planning to take everyone away' element of the story- they could have moved directly to 'Federation admiral plotting to steal the radiation wholesale.
Well, if by "what else should they have done," you mean what else should they have done while still in the confines of the Bak'u/Son'a story, then I really don't know. I found the story very boring. I constantly hear that it seemed more like a two-parter from season 7, and I couldn't agree more. The only two things that really moved me was when Geordi got his eyesight back, and the ironic relationship between a boy who's been taught that technology is bad, and yet befriends Data (which essentially mirrors what happened with Ru'afo and the other Son'a, so it's chilling to think that Artim could eventually go down that path too.)
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Old July 4 2014, 06:15 AM   #9
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Destructor wrote: View Post
Tosk wrote: View Post
Destructor wrote: View Post
2. Why oh why did they never finish the special effects shots in the collector at the end of the film? I am talking specifically about the background of the collector (which was supposed to be open space, which would have been cool, but ends up being, I think, the actual bluescreen they were using for those shots
A misconception. The Son'a color scheme simply favors blue lights.
I can't tell if you are joking or not!
He's not; it looks like bluescreen lining the inside of the set, but it isn't. There's behind-the-scenes pics floating around out there that show greenscreen being used in the collector interior set (to facilitate set extensions and such), complete with tracking markers. If the blue walls were intended to be replaced by VFX, it doesn't make much sense that a.) they'd be a different color from the stuff that was replaced in post, and b.) they'd be entirely devoid of tracking markers.
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Old July 4 2014, 11:46 AM   #10
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Also (for what it's worth) we see the exterior of the collector, and it is not transparent.
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Old July 4 2014, 12:09 PM   #11
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

The story just needed to be reformatted, that's all. Also, the reliance on the tradition that Ugly People are Bad & The Beautiful People are Good reduces the impact of the Blood Feud, I feel. If they had all looked like the same race, having it be hard to tell who to side with would've made it much more interesting. The Magical Powers of Anij just had to go. The Amish Ways of the Ba'ku also needed to go, especially as they "kept up" with current technology, anyways. With judicious rewriting, this motion picture could've gone down some very interesting roads and made a lot more sense, than maybe it did, before. Nevertheless, I'm still quite fond of INSURRECTION - it's entertaining popcorn fare!
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Old July 4 2014, 01:37 PM   #12
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

When released I thought Insurrestion was a little bit of a let down compared with the high action First Contact, I always felt it was more like a TNG episode that didn't seem quite right.

However after watching it a few more times I've come to appreciate it much more, I came to the conclusion that because it felt like a TNG episode is the reason I've grown to like it more and the reason it does't seem right is down to the unfimiliar surrounding of the Enterprise-E.

While I quite like the "E" the change of ship and sets had an affect on the TNG films after Generations. Loss of that familiarity seemed to change the TNG for me.

I don't dislike the darker style series, far from it in fact as I loved DS9 and the Reimagined BSG, I just think it changed TNG and not for the better.
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Old July 5 2014, 08:45 AM   #13
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
it reminded me of the cut scene in TWOK where Khan's baby admires the Genesis device before it explodes and kills him. It's just creepy, and I'm glad it was cut.
Eugh! What? Did that really happen? It creeps me out just imagining it. I've tried a quick search of these forums but cannot find anything about it.

For what it's worth, I love INS just as it is. The one thing I'd do is jettison Worf. He'd moved on to DS9 and the producers should have gotten over it.
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Old July 5 2014, 03:46 PM   #14
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

1. Someone should have controlled Spiner's influence on the script.
2. Cut out the rest of the corn in the script.
3. Have both the Sona and the Baku be worth Picard's time.
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Old July 5 2014, 04:37 PM   #15
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Re: What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

MikeS wrote: View Post
For what it's worth, I love INS just as it is. The one thing I'd do is jettison Worf. He'd moved on to DS9 and the producers should have gotten over it.
Same here. Personally, I would have brought in a new female security chief (she wouldn't have had many lines, but she would have been Worf's replacement in both Insurrection and Nemesis).
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