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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old June 18 2014, 11:36 PM   #61
hbquikcomjamesl
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Re: Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Had the PTB made Reed being gay, it would've been the best thing about ENT--finally giving Star Trek a gay character.
Lt. Sean Hawk, from Star Trek: First Contact, although his sexual orientation was not established canonically, was later established as being gay in several novels.

And if I remember right, doesn't Trip have at least one gay relative?
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Old June 18 2014, 11:49 PM   #62
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

hbquikcomjamesl wrote: View Post
doesn't Trip have at least one gay relative?
His brother Bert, yes.
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Old June 19 2014, 01:21 AM   #63
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Re: Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
hbquikcomjamesl wrote: View Post
doesn't Trip have at least one gay relative?
His brother Bert, yes.
Who has a husband and adopted son.
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Old June 19 2014, 08:47 AM   #64
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Re: Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

Bert ??!!

People are still called Bert in the 22nd century?

Oy.

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Old June 19 2014, 02:08 PM   #65
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Re: Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

What's wrong with that?
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Old June 19 2014, 02:16 PM   #66
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Re: Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

It conjures images of cloth caps and whippets, smoking a pipe on the way home from t'mine, thinking about feeding t'pigeons. It just doesn't seem very... Star Trekky. More Coronation Street-y.

.
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Old June 19 2014, 03:08 PM   #67
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Re: Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

Hunh. To Americans, "Bert" has a rather different connotation -- aside from the pigeon thing.
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Old June 19 2014, 11:20 PM   #68
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Re: Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

Hmm. As one who grew up on Bobbsey Twins novels (and has at least one version of every single title), the first Bert who comes to my mind would be Bert Bobbsey.

(Speaking of which, is anybody else here aware that it was Edward Stratemeyer who, for all intents and purposes, invented "book packaging," and it was with the Bobbsey Twins, years before the Hardy Boys or Nancy Drew, that he first developed the concept? Or that while the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew that got most of the attention, the Bobbsey Twins was, when the series was canceled in 1979, the longest-running of all the Stratemeyer children's novel series?)

But back to the topic, I do remember Trip's brother having a husband and an adopted child. Was there any canonical mention of Bert? Or is he strictly a creature of the novels?
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Old June 20 2014, 12:38 AM   #69
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Re: Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

I think it would have added an interesting quality to his character although I don't think it would have been desirable to make a big deal of it. In fact, Mayweather probably needed more depth. They should have made him gay instead.
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Old June 20 2014, 01:35 AM   #70
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Re: Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

I don't remember any mention of Tripp's brother in the tv series.
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Old June 20 2014, 01:46 AM   #71
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Re: Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

hbquikcomjamesl wrote: View Post
Was there any canonical mention of Bert? Or is he strictly a creature of the novels?
Trip canonically has a brother, but the brother's name and family situation are inventions of the novels.
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Old June 21 2014, 12:03 AM   #72
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Re: Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
It conjures images of cloth caps and whippets, smoking a pipe on the way home from t'mine, thinking about feeding t'pigeons.

.
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Old June 21 2014, 04:49 AM   #73
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Re: Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

^ Laying an egg...it is a difficult concept. It is not logical.
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Old June 21 2014, 07:19 AM   #74
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Re: Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

I never got the impression from Reed, as presented on Enterprise, that he was gay, nor do I think it was ever intended by the writers to make him gay. Anyone who thinks this, in my opinion, is reading into something a little too much, or simply wants the character to be gay for whatever reason, and are seeing what they want to see.

That said, I think it could have been an interesting plot twist, to reveal Reed was gay. Reed stating he had girlfriends in the past doesn't necessarily contradict that, either, as it could be explained as something he tried, and maybe didn't like it and took a while to realize it.

The only thing I think might be seen as a potential negative is that Reed was always portrayed as kind of uptight and seemed to have such an exaggerated sense of self-reproach and inadequacy. That could be misconstrued as he is ashamed to be gay, as well as something he feels he should hide from his crew mates.

I mean I know Enterprise is 100 years before TOS, but even then, that is an age where humanity is and should be progressive and enlightened enough to not care if Reed is gay or not, and the way Reed was written, I get the impression his character would be obsessed with keeping his homosexuality a secret and be afraid of revealing it to anyone. And to me Reed being overly concerned and constantly worrying what his crew members think of him being gay in the 22nd century is sort of out of character for that era, and makes Reed look basically like he is neurotic, and not well adjusted. Just not a good example of a gay character...one who is self doubting and feels guilty for being gay, in a society that should be enlightened enough by the 22nd century to not care he is gay.

Now, if there were to be an LGBT character in Star Trek, if they are gay or lesbian, it should be portrayed like its no big deal, and no one on Earth or in Starfleet thinks its a big deal. That precedent was sort of set by Dax already. Maybe a gay or lesbian first officer or something like that.

Another idea I think may be interesting is what if there were a transsexual Vulcan? Now, unlike Earth or Starfleet in 22, 23, or the 24th centuries, where LGBT shouldn't be a big deal, I can see Vulcans, who are uber conservative and uber repressed, maybe having an issue with a transsexual Vulcan. Not unlike the shame T'pol had to face for being with a telepathic Vulcan, maybe Vulcan society struggles with the "logic" of a Vulcan who changes his or her gender, and lives as the opposite gender of their birth. I think that would be an interesting story line.
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Old June 21 2014, 07:53 AM   #75
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Re: Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

^^^^ We've had a gay Vulcan in New Frontier, so in TrekLit-canon, they excist. I suppose it makes the concept of a transsexual/transgender Vulcan possible.
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