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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 7 2014, 03:49 AM   #46
BillJ
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Hats off to everyone (pro or con) for keeping this thread civil so far!
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Old June 7 2014, 03:59 AM   #47
J. Allen
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

BillJ wrote: View Post
Hats off to everyone (pro or con) for keeping this thread civil so far!
Are you saying something bad about hats? What is it about hats that you don't want them on our heads? I can't believe you'd be so shallow as to mock people for their headwear?!

I can't take this baseless bigotry anymore!

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Old June 7 2014, 04:04 AM   #48
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Franklin wrote: View Post
urbandefault wrote: View Post
I agree with BillJ's post, except for one thing. The Spock scream bothers me, and I just realized why.

The build up of the reversed-parallel scene was almost right.

I think it would have worked better if Spock let the tension build in his face exactly like Shatner did in TWOK. But instead of the scream, he should have remained silent and then went on to beat the batcrap out of Khan. After his speech about choosing not to feel, releasing all the pent up emotion at that moment seemed a little soon.

Saving the outburst for later would have made it perfect.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, mirroring Shatner's "collapse" on his side of the wall would have been better. Then the Khan ass-whooping.
I could go with your edit, but I didn't really have a problem with the scream because I saw it as Spock finally giving in to the emotion and lashing out like a primal scream (his mom, his planet, and now the person Spock Prime told him would be an important part of his life, and with whom he'd do great things, is struck down prematurely). So in context, it worked for me. But it's fair to say it suffered (and maybe was cheapened) a bit for some by being identified with the Kirk scream, especially since that scream has become something of a joke over time.

Also, remember, at the time Spock didn't know if Khan was alive or dead. That is, he didn't know there was an ass to whip, yet.
I can see that, but the collapse would have let the intensity build to the violent release when Spock caught up with Khan.

Holding all of that back, waiting for the fight, would have been a much bigger payoff.
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Old June 7 2014, 04:13 AM   #49
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

teacake wrote: View Post
Why are you quoting me Ovation? I never said it was inappropriate, I was saying what I liked about the scene.
I was agreeing with you and J. Allen. Just adding my observation that I find complaints about the scene as being "inappropriate" were off the mark. I guess I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be (a bit of that going around this week--hazards of typing while coping with an 8 year old boy). Sorry for the confusion.
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Old June 7 2014, 04:46 AM   #50
Pasi Nurminen
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

BillJ wrote: View Post
Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
I'm still dumbfounded that anyone can claim with a straight face that JJ Abrams captures the essence of TOS. TOS was never a big, loud, brainless action series revolving around explosions and flashing lights and loud noises. Saying JJ captures the essence of TOS is like saying Stephenie Meyer's Twilight captured the essence of Jane Austen's Persuasion. It's just absurd on its face.
No one forced you to come into this thread. For me, I love the films and what they bring to the table.
This is a discussion forum meant for the exchange of ideas. If you do not want an exchange of ideas, do not start threads or make posts on this forum.

Franklin wrote: View Post
Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
I'm still dumbfounded that anyone can claim with a straight face that JJ Abrams captures the essence of TOS. TOS was never a big, loud, brainless action series revolving around explosions and flashing lights and loud noises. Saying JJ captures the essence of TOS is like saying Stephenie Meyer's Twilight captured the essence of Jane Austen's Persuasion. It's just absurd on its face.
TOS featured all the explosions, flashing lights, and loud noises it could afford. If Roddenberry's budget had allowed it, there would've been even more.

As far as the action being brainless goes, . ST09 and STID were as deep in characterization and issues and plot as any good TOS episode was. TOS was not high drama, after all. It wasn't cerebral, either.

Capturing the essence of TOS to me means capturing the essence of the characters, whatever situations they're in. For the one thousandth time, in my opinion, I believe Abrams and his cohorts got them down perfectly.
I guess the principle problem is that TOS, for all its camp and ham, at least endeavoured to have something to say about the world, and it was as much about exploring the human condition as it was about space adventure. JJ Abrams, on the other hand, has nothing to say about the world, and restricts himself to mindless action. TOS was cerebral, at least compared to what JJ Abrams has served.
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Old June 7 2014, 04:52 AM   #51
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
TOS was cerebral, at least compared to what JJ Abrams has served.
You keep telling yourself that. I was four-years old when I started watching TOS and had no issues following it.

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
This is a discussion forum meant for the exchange of ideas. If you do not want an exchange of ideas, do not start threads or make posts on this forum.
"They are having a positive discussion, let me come in and take a shit." I'll never understand the mindset.
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Old June 7 2014, 04:58 AM   #52
Pasi Nurminen
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

I think you need to calm down. Not everyone who expresses a viewpoint that is different from yours is trying to "take a shit" on the discussion.
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Old June 7 2014, 05:02 AM   #53
BillJ
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
I think you need to calm down. Not everyone who expresses a viewpoint that is different from yours is trying to "take a shit" on the discussion.
When one is talking down to people...

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
I'm still dumbfounded that anyone can claim with a straight face that JJ Abrams captures the essence of TOS. TOS was never a big, loud, brainless action series revolving around explosions and flashing lights and loud noises. Saying JJ captures the essence of TOS is like saying Stephenie Meyer's Twilight captured the essence of Jane Austen's Persuasion. It's just absurd on its face.
...they tend to get that reaction from me.

There's thirty other threads about Star Trek Into Darkness for people to talk down to others in.
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Old June 7 2014, 05:04 AM   #54
Pasi Nurminen
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

I wasn't talking down to anyone, I was expressing an opinion. If you wanted your thread to consist entirely of people lavishing their praise on your beloved movie, then you should have made that clear in the original post. In fact, if you want to avoid encountering dissenting opinions that might "take a shit" on the discussion, then I suggest you avoid the internet entirely.
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Old June 7 2014, 05:09 AM   #55
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
If you wanted your thread to consist entirely of people lavishing their praise on your beloved movie, then you should have made that clear in the original post.
"A thread titled "Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness"? Obviously, I need to go in and tell everyone that I hate it for the umpteenth time. Just in case someone forgot I hated it!"

It's like a fucking compulsion for some people.

Sometimes it is simply nice to have a positive thread.
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Old June 7 2014, 05:14 AM   #56
Nerys Myk
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
I wasn't talking down to anyone, I was expressing an opinion. If you wanted your thread to consist entirely of people lavishing their praise on your beloved movie, then you should have made that clear in the original post. In fact, if you want to avoid encountering dissenting opinions that might "take a shit" on the discussion, then I suggest you avoid the internet entirely.
The thread title and OP are pretty clear. As BillJ mentioned, there are plenty of other threads to be negative about the film.

STID did have "something to say about the world". It touched on family, loyalty, duty, ideals and friendship. It also touch on the topics of terrorism, government secrecy and political manipulation.
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Old June 7 2014, 05:17 AM   #57
Pasi Nurminen
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
I wasn't talking down to anyone, I was expressing an opinion. If you wanted your thread to consist entirely of people lavishing their praise on your beloved movie, then you should have made that clear in the original post. In fact, if you want to avoid encountering dissenting opinions that might "take a shit" on the discussion, then I suggest you avoid the internet entirely.
The thread title and OP are pretty clear. As BillJ mentioned, there are plenty of other threads to be negative about the film.

STID did have "something to say about the world". It touched on family, loyalty, duty, ideals and friendship. It also touch on the topics of terrorism, government secrecy and political manipulation.
Agreed, I will credit Into Darkness for at least trying to have a message, where Star Trek 2009 didn't even try and was content to be a mindless action-adventure flick. I maintain, though, that its message was lost amidst incessant and overblown action sequences and generally poor storytelling and scriptwriting.
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Old June 7 2014, 05:17 AM   #58
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post

STID did have "something to say about the world". It touched on family, loyalty, duty, ideals and friendship. It also touch on the topics of terrorism, government secrecy and political manipulation.
I guess it doesn't count unless it is a long-winded speech by Picard about how it is best to allow a primitive society to perish?
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Old June 7 2014, 05:19 AM   #59
BillJ
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
Agreed, I will credit Into Darkness for at least trying to have a message, where Star Trek 2009 didn't even try and was content to be a mindless action-adventure flick. I maintain, though, that its message was lost amidst incessant and overblown action sequences and generally poor storytelling and scriptwriting.
Obviously not, since it doesn't seem like too many people had an issue picking up on it.
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Old June 7 2014, 05:24 AM   #60
Nerys Myk
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
I wasn't talking down to anyone, I was expressing an opinion. If you wanted your thread to consist entirely of people lavishing their praise on your beloved movie, then you should have made that clear in the original post. In fact, if you want to avoid encountering dissenting opinions that might "take a shit" on the discussion, then I suggest you avoid the internet entirely.
The thread title and OP are pretty clear. As BillJ mentioned, there are plenty of other threads to be negative about the film.

STID did have "something to say about the world". It touched on family, loyalty, duty, ideals and friendship. It also touch on the topics of terrorism, government secrecy and political manipulation.
Agreed, I will credit Into Darkness for at least trying to have a message, where Star Trek 2009 didn't even try and was content to be a mindless action-adventure flick. I maintain, though, that its message was lost amidst incessant and overblown action sequences and generally poor storytelling and scriptwriting.
I managed to catch it with out any problems.

ST09 was about one's "first, best destiny" and about finding one's place in the world.
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