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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 7 2014, 12:24 AM   #16
BillJ
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
I'm still dumbfounded that anyone can claim with a straight face that JJ Abrams captures the essence of TOS. TOS was never a big, loud, brainless action series revolving around explosions and flashing lights and loud noises. Saying JJ captures the essence of TOS is like saying Stephenie Meyer's Twilight captured the essence of Jane Austen's Persuasion. It's just absurd on its face.
No one forced you to come into this thread. For me, I love the films and what they bring to the table.
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Old June 7 2014, 12:33 AM   #17
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Jedi_Master wrote: View Post
*Makes popcorn waiting for BigJake to wander by*


Cardinal Biggles, fetch... the comfy chair!!!

Actually I don't mind a lot of BillJ's list:



Pasi Nurminen wrote:
I'm still dumbfounded that anyone can claim with a straight face that JJ Abrams captures the essence of TOS. TOS was never a big, loud, brainless action series revolving around explosions and flashing lights and loud noises. Saying JJ captures the essence of TOS is like saying Stephenie Meyer's Twilight captured the essence of Jane Austen's Persuasion. It's just absurd on its face.
Well, yeah. In fact Abrams was specifically not trying to capture the essence of TOS, which he couldn't "find a way into." But there seem to be a lot of very virulent feelings toward TNG-era Trek bound up with claims about NuTrek having made it "Star Trek again," it often seems to be about more than what's in the movies*.

(EDIT: * Although not for BillJ, as he tells it.)
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Old June 7 2014, 12:42 AM   #18
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
I'm still dumbfounded that anyone can claim with a straight face that JJ Abrams captures the essence of TOS. TOS was never a big, loud, brainless action series revolving around explosions and flashing lights and loud noises. Saying JJ captures the essence of TOS is like saying Stephenie Meyer's Twilight captured the essence of Jane Austen's Persuasion. It's just absurd on its face.
TOS featured all the explosions, flashing lights, and loud noises it could afford. If Roddenberry's budget had allowed it, there would've been even more.

As far as the action being brainless goes, . ST09 and STID were as deep in characterization and issues and plot as any good TOS episode was. TOS was not high drama, after all. It wasn't cerebral, either.

Capturing the essence of TOS to me means capturing the essence of the characters, whatever situations they're in. For the one thousandth time, in my opinion, I believe Abrams and his cohorts got them down perfectly.
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Old June 7 2014, 12:46 AM   #19
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Franklin wrote: View Post
As far as the action being brainless goes, . ST09 and STID were as deep in characterization and issues and plot as any good TOS episode was.
No.
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Old June 7 2014, 12:52 AM   #20
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

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Well, yeah. In fact Abrams was specifically not trying to capture the essence of TOS, which he couldn't "find a way into." But there seem to be a lot of very virulent feelings toward TNG-era Trek bound up with claims about NuTrek having made it "Star Trek again."
Pardon the double post (unless someone has snuck in between mine), but there's a story Shelby Foote used to tell about George Custer during the Civil War. Custer's general was riding with his officers ahead of his troops when they came up upon the Chickahominy River. The troops stopped while the general and his other officers contemplated the depth of water and whether or not the troops could cross. They couldn't decide whether the water was too deep or not. Distressed by the length of the discussion, Custer broke away on his horse, splashed into the river, rode the horse out to the middle, and with the horse standing there, yelled back, "It's this deep, General!"

The General was Picard. Custer was Kirk. That about sums it up.
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Old June 7 2014, 12:52 AM   #21
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

BigJake wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
As far as the action being brainless goes, . ST09 and STID were as deep in characterization and issues and plot as any good TOS episode was.
No.
You're not Dennis. I need more words. Why, "No?"
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Old June 7 2014, 12:54 AM   #22
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Yes.

Why people come in to argue with a "I love this" thread I don't know, except they must get off on being negative. Do they think they will turn people away from their love of something? What will that get them?

I liked your list BillJ! Some were interesting because I hadn't thought of them that way.
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Old June 7 2014, 12:55 AM   #23
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

BigJake wrote: View Post
Well, yeah. In fact Abrams was specifically not trying to capture the essence of TOS, which he couldn't "find a way into." But there seem to be a lot of very virulent feelings toward TNG-era Trek bound up with claims about NuTrek having made it "Star Trek again," it seems to be about more than what's in the movies.
For me, it's about exactly what is in the movies. A sense of fun and adventure that has long been absent from Star Trek.

It doesn't mean I have virulent feelings about Berman-era Trek. I've been rewatching season four of Enterprise lately. Plus, I've been buying TNG seasons on Blu-ray disc as they've come out. Not exactly the actions of someone with virulent feelings about the material.
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Old June 7 2014, 12:57 AM   #24
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Franklin wrote: View Post
Pardon the double post (unless someone has snuck in between mine), but there's a story Shelby Foote used to tell about George Custer during the Civil War. Custer's general was riding with his officers ahead of his troops when they came up upon the Chickahominy River. The troops stopped while the general and his other officers contemplated the depth of water and whether or not the troops could cross. They couldn't decide whether the water was too deep or not. Distressed by the length of the discussion, Custer broke away on his horse, splashed into the river, rode the horse out to the middle, and with the horse standing there, yelled back, "It's this deep, General!"

The General was Picard. Custer was Kirk. That about sums it up.
I like that.

You're not Dennis.
We are all Dennis, and Dennis is all of us.

I need more words.
Click thou the link in my sig, and find enlightment. And many, many words. (More specifically there.)
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Old June 7 2014, 01:20 AM   #25
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

BillJ wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
Well, yeah. In fact Abrams was specifically not trying to capture the essence of TOS, which he couldn't "find a way into." But there seem to be a lot of very virulent feelings toward TNG-era Trek bound up with claims about NuTrek having made it "Star Trek again," it seems to be about more than what's in the movies.
For me, it's about exactly what is in the movies. A sense of fun and adventure that has long been absent from Star Trek.

It doesn't mean I have virulent feelings about Berman-era Trek. I've been rewatching season four of Enterprise lately. Plus, I've been buying TNG seasons on Blu-ray disc as they've come out. Not exactly the actions of someone with virulent feelings about the material.
Amazingly it is possible to love everything, with varying degrees of love. I love the universe and I have loved all the incarnations of it. Obviously I have preferences but I enjoy the universe itself. Like BillJ I started watching it with TOS years ago. It's all good, it all has weaknesses, it all has strengths. NuTrek captured a lot of what I loved about TOS, I remembering thinking when I saw 2009 that I felt totally catered to as a TOS fan whose emotions about TOS are all wrapped up in bonding with it at a young age. That I did not expect to ever happen! I felt like I should write JJ a thank you letter after I walked out of seeing XI for the first time.

I do not understand why some people make it their mission to prove me and other people who loved these movies wrong. As if these movies are objectively incorrect and we must be convinced of this. That's just weird.
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Old June 7 2014, 01:31 AM   #26
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

teacake wrote: View Post
Amazingly it is possible to love everything, with varying degrees of love.
teacake is Deepak Chopra? It all begins to come into focus...

I do not understand why some people make it their mission to prove me and other people who loved these movies wrong.
Because someone disagreeing with you about a movie is obviously trying to suppress the brightest part of your immortal soul.
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Old June 7 2014, 01:38 AM   #27
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

That's not my point at all and you know it. This isn't a thread titled "what are the pros and cons of STID", it's someone's list of what they loved about it.

I get that you probably have some compulsive need to vent your hatescreed out into the universe every time you see someone post that they love something you hate. I do think it's pretty weird that you seem to think this is an objective truth you are proving. You can say it's "disagreement" but that's not how it comes across at times.
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Old June 7 2014, 01:40 AM   #28
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

teacake wrote: View Post
I get that you probably have some compulsive need to vent your hatescreed out into the universe
Actually my post in this thread was mostly about agreeing with BillJ. It does help to pay attention.

(And you know, I joke about the Haterade thing... but it is a joke. And it's mostly a joke about the kind of preciousness that imagines any disagreement is "hate" and an attempt to steal and destroy one's joy. If you really find it possible to love everything, you should be able to achieve a more generous and honest understanding of motives than that.)
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Old June 7 2014, 01:42 AM   #29
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

Don't forget to tell people to read your hate screed.. oh wait you already did that.
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Old June 7 2014, 01:43 AM   #30
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Re: Twelve Reasons I Love Star Trek Into Darkness

teacake wrote: View Post

Amazingly it is possible to love everything, with varying degrees of love. I love the universe and I have loved all the incarnations of it. Obviously I have preferences but I enjoy the universe itself. Like BillJ I started watching it with TOS years ago. It's all good, it all has weaknesses, it all has strengths. NuTrek captured a lot of what I loved about TOS, I remembering thinking when I saw 2009 that I felt totally catered to as a TOS fan whose emotions about TOS are all wrapped up in bonding with it at a young age. That I did not expect to ever happen! I felt like I should write JJ a thank you letter after I walked out of seeing XI for the first time.
I have a complicated relationship with Berman-era Star Trek. Some of it I loved, other parts not so much. There are times when I definitely would've made different creative choices. But there's definitely enough entertaining material sprinkled through the various series to keep me coming back.
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