RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,375
Posts: 5,504,296
Members: 25,126
Currently online: 477
Newest member: Ted Dave

TrekToday headlines

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

Rumor Mill: Saldana Gives Birth
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

New Line of Anovos Enterprise Uniforms
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 14 2014, 04:53 PM   #91
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Starfleet is military. No matter what Roddenberry in his later years or anyone else might say, When the UFP goes to war Starfleet is who fights it.
I don't think the objection is to the idea of Starfleet being military -- it's to the assumption that a future multispecies interstellar military must be organized the same way as the 20th/21st-century United States military and must handle promotions and assignments in the same way. There have surely been historical military organizations that were structured differently, and there would undoubtedly be alien militaries that are structured differently too.
Possibly, but I would think factors like background and experience would be considered when looking for potential leaders no matter what. Sure there might be some nepotism, cronyism or classism in play as well.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 05:57 PM   #92
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Sure there might be some nepotism, cronyism or classism in play as well.
It's not like such negative things are the only alternatives to what we're used to. Maybe one of Starfleet's founding cultures had a sort of apprenticeship system in its military tradition, where serving as a commander's first officer was seen as training for eventually taking their place.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 06:22 PM   #93
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Sure there might be some nepotism, cronyism or classism in play as well.
It's not like such negative things are the only alternatives to what we're used to. Maybe one of Starfleet's founding cultures had a sort of apprenticeship system in its military tradition, where serving as a commander's first officer was seen as training for eventually taking their place.
Haven't we seen career paths in Trek though?

Kirk- Supposedly served as the CO of a smaller ship prior to getting the Enterprise.

Picard- Was the CO of the Stargazer prior to becoming the Captain of the Enterprise.

Sisko-Serves as XO of the Saratoga, does a stint at The Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards, becomes the CO of DS9 and later the CO of the Defiant.

Janeway- Serves as a "Command officer" ( XO? CO?) on the USS Billings, then becomes the CO of the Voyager.

Archer- He's one that seems atypical. His background is as a test pilot, though its possible he serves as an CO or XO prior to become the CO of the NX-01.

Riker- Was offered the command of several ships. while the XO of the Enterprise and the Hood and finally became the CO of the USS Titan.

Assuming this is typical, most COs have commanded previous ships or been an XO.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 07:10 PM   #94
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Haven't we seen career paths in Trek though?
Well, yes, of course, but the point is that it can be another way, not that it has to be. Obviously not every captaincy is going to be earned the same way. Acknowledging that one possibility exists does not preclude alternatives.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 07:34 PM   #95
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Haven't we seen career paths in Trek though?
Well, yes, of course, but the point is that it can be another way, not that it has to be. Obviously not every captaincy is going to be earned the same way. Acknowledging that one possibility exists does not preclude alternatives.
True, there are many paths but the typical one in Starfleet seems to be XO to CO, or if you are a CO you can become the CO of a different ship. Not seeing the example you gave as being one embraced by Starfleet.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 08:49 PM   #96
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

^Huh? The "example" I gave was an attempt to explain the XO-to-CO pattern as the result of a sort of "apprenticeship" tradition. So how can you say in one sentence that it's typical, yet in the next say you don't see it being embraced?
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 09:14 PM   #97
borgboy
Fleet Captain
 
borgboy's Avatar
 
Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Lots of interesting suggestions. I'd love to have a female captain of the Enterprise. Sure, we've had them, but never as the current captain, only in flashbacks. Ezri and Saavik are both exciting choices. I'd love to have Saavik in some 24th century Trek in some capacity.
I don't see any reason why Picard would be leaving the Enterprise anytime soon, not allowing for the 24th century longer life spans. I think Picard not being the captain of the Enterprise would hurt the sale of the books.
__________________
Resistance is futile
borgboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 11:18 PM   #98
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Huh? The "example" I gave was an attempt to explain the XO-to-CO pattern as the result of a sort of "apprenticeship" tradition. So how can you say in one sentence that it's typical, yet in the next say you don't see it being embraced?
Because the example was for the XO to take over for the CO of the ship he's "apprenticing" on not a different ship. Which hasn't been shown to be true in most of the cases we've seen. Spock became the Captain of the Enterprise after Kirk, but we don't know if there was a CO between Kirk and Spock. Picard became the CO of he Stargazer when it's Captain was killed. Though neither is exactly the scenario you outlined,

where serving as a commander's first officer was seen as training for eventually taking their place.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 11:27 PM   #99
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

But throughout this thread, we've been discussing it as a possibility -- people have been nominating Worf as Picard's replacement. I'm just trying to be open to both sides of the question. Remember, I myself pointed out earlier that it would better fit with established naval patterns if the ship were assigned to a veteran captain, but others have suggested that Starfleet isn't necessarily organized the way an Earth military would be, so I considered that premise and thought of a hypothetical model that might justify the suggestion. But I'm not taking sides or asserting it has to be True, I'm just exploring the idea. It's about conjectural possibilities, not documented cases.

And I think there is evidence in canon to suggest that first officers are often considered the heirs apparent for their captains, even if we haven't seen that possibility fulfilled. I think Riker once said he turned down commands because he was holding out for the Enterprise. We saw him as Enterprise captain in the alternate futures of "Future Imperfect" and "All Good Things...". T'Pol similarly took over the captaincy of Enterprise in "Twilight"'s alternate future, even though she was a civilian at the point of divergence in the series' present. ST has always seemed to assume that first officers were the leading candidates to replace their captains, and it's that precedent that's influencing the Worf suggestions here.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15 2014, 01:15 AM   #100
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

I'm not against Worf as Captain, just the notion it's less fan wanky than Sisko or Kira being Captain.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15 2014, 02:00 AM   #101
Elias Vaughn
Captain
 
Elias Vaughn's Avatar
 
Location: Dead. Or in the Celestial Temple. One of the two.
Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Spock became the Captain of the Enterprise after Kirk, but we don't know if there was a CO between Kirk and Spock.
Decker?
Elias Vaughn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15 2014, 02:27 AM   #102
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Elias Vaughn wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Spock became the Captain of the Enterprise after Kirk, but we don't know if there was a CO between Kirk and Spock.
Decker?
Decker only had the center seat during the refit. Kirk yanked it out from under him. What happened between TMP and TWOK is anybody's guess. Most think Kirk commanded a second five year mission. But he did go back "upstairs" before the events of TWOK. I suppose there might be a novel about that out there. I doubt the ship became a training vessel so soon after the refit and Spock in TWOK seems to be fine commanding the ship as a teacher, but not on active duty. So there may have been a Captain between the end of Kirk's FYM and Spock's training ship.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15 2014, 03:02 AM   #103
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

In Mere Anarchy: The Darkness Drops Again, I established that when Kirk was re-promoted to admiral, he had the Enterprise assigned as his personal flagship with Spock as its captain.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15 2014, 11:59 AM   #104
Mage
Commodore
 
Mage's Avatar
 
Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I'm not against Worf as Captain, just the notion it's less fan wanky than Sisko or Kira being Captain.

I think the fanwanky idea comes from the fact that Worf is already there. Sisko just recieved new orders from Starfleet to go and explore the Gamma Quadrant, according the Peaceable Kingdoms. He is happy where he is, with his family. And the last time we saw Kira, she was transported onto an alien ship with Taran'Atar standing in front of her. Not only that, she left Starfleet to become a Vedek. It would not fit her character at all for her to suddenly become part of Starfleet again, because someone asked her to command the Enterprise. There is no appeal to her to rejoin.

So, both characters suddenly finding themselves in a place where they would want to take command of the Enterprise, would be out of character. If the authors of Treklit decide to still put one of them in command, even though it makes no sense and only to gratify some fans, then that makes it fanwank.

And yes, in a way, putting Worf in command of a prestigous ship like the Enterprise without never having commanded any other ship before that, can be considered odd aswell.

However, Worf has been in command of a starship before, many times. When he took the Defiant out, while he was assigned to DS9, for patrol or what-not, he was in command. It wasn't like he had to call to the station and ask Benny what to do next.
Nope, he commanded that ship. He might not have had the rank of captain, but he was IN COMMAND. So, he does have previous experience. Quite a lot, really.
__________________
Niner. Lurker. Browncoat.
Mage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15 2014, 05:19 PM   #105
Markonian
Captain
 
Markonian's Avatar
 
Location: Leipzig, Saxony
Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

If Worf became captain, could Geordi fill the posts of XO and chief engineer simultaneously?

Imho, because of the sheer life expectancy Humans have in the 24th century, I believe Picard is physically and mentally fit enough to command Enterprise for another two decades at least. So, when he leaves will depend on his and Beverly's family plans, which may or may not include settling down and ambassadorship. Beverly herself might still have career interests as well.
__________________
1.000 years: University Leipzig, 1409-2409
Gorn to be wild!
Markonian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:01 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.