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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old June 7 2014, 01:59 AM   #31
zarkon
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Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

From a historical footnote perspective I'd like Data, but I don't think data as captain would make for a good read given how immensely talented he is
From an entertainment perspective Calhoun would be the best
From a sales perspective Picard'll be riding that chair forever

And the only Decker I'd support as captain is Matt Decker of deadmen fame
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Old June 7 2014, 02:00 AM   #32
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Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Picard or nothing would be my first choice. If I had a gun to my head I would say Riker as an Admiral with the E as his flagship. Maybe give Vale the Titan.
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Old June 7 2014, 02:33 AM   #33
Sran
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Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Paper Moon wrote: View Post
Maybe Worf, but I'd rather see La Forge.

But I agree, I don't think we'll see a successor for captain of the Enterprise-E. She'll be lost with all hands or decommissioned when Picard retires.

Now, the -F? That's an interesting question...
To be clear, I wasn't talking about the E-E specifically. To me, the Enterprise is the Enterprise. The letters represent different incarnations of the same ship. The name and history of the Enterprise are indistinguishable from the vessel itself.

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Old June 7 2014, 04:36 AM   #34
Wally
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Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

I vote against Worf. The Enterprise is the flagship of the Federation and really should not be given as a first command. Remember that Picard already had a long career when he took command. Only reason to have him is the popularity of the character and history with the ship.

More believable choices with established command histories and reasonably high marquee value: Sisko & Riker.
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Old June 7 2014, 05:29 AM   #35
E-DUB
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Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

If it is Riker, that could be an aspect of the AGT future coming to pass (even if it is a different Enterprise).
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Old June 7 2014, 05:49 AM   #36
Nerys Myk
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Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Kira Nerys.
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Old June 7 2014, 08:22 AM   #37
CaffeineAddict
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Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Wally wrote: View Post
I vote against Worf. The Enterprise is the flagship of the Federation and really should not be given as a first command.
Yeah, but...wasn't the Enterprise Kirk's first command (whatever timeline you're in)?
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Old June 7 2014, 01:27 PM   #38
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Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

CaffeineAddict wrote: View Post
Yeah, but...wasn't the Enterprise Kirk's first command (whatever timeline you're in)?
There's no evidence of that. In "Where No Man Has Gone Before," Dehner said that Kirk requested Mitchell on his first command, rather than "on this ship," implying that he'd had a previous command. And his bio in The Making of Star Trek said his first command had been a destroyer-equivalent vessel.
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Old June 7 2014, 02:37 PM   #39
CaffeineAddict
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Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Christopher wrote: View Post
CaffeineAddict wrote: View Post
Yeah, but...wasn't the Enterprise Kirk's first command (whatever timeline you're in)?
There's no evidence of that. In "Where No Man Has Gone Before," Dehner said that Kirk requested Mitchell on his first command, rather than "on this ship," implying that he'd had a previous command. And his bio in The Making of Star Trek said his first command had been a destroyer-equivalent vessel.
I've never got the impression from that line that she was talking about anything other than the Enterprise. Kirk's chronology on StarTrek.com says he was promoted to captain and received command of the Enterprise in the same year, so it would have had to be a pretty short command if it wasn't the Enterprise.
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Old June 7 2014, 02:42 PM   #40
zarkon
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Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

CaffeineAddict wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
CaffeineAddict wrote: View Post
Yeah, but...wasn't the Enterprise Kirk's first command (whatever timeline you're in)?
There's no evidence of that. In "Where No Man Has Gone Before," Dehner said that Kirk requested Mitchell on his first command, rather than "on this ship," implying that he'd had a previous command. And his bio in The Making of Star Trek said his first command had been a destroyer-equivalent vessel.
I've never got the impression from that line that she was talking about anything other than the Enterprise. Kirk's chronology on StarTrek.com says he was promoted to captain and received command of the Enterprise in the same year, so it would have had to be a pretty short command if it wasn't the Enterprise.
If it was a destroyer he probably could have captained it as a commander.
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Old June 7 2014, 02:56 PM   #41
Christopher
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Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

CaffeineAddict wrote: View Post
I've never got the impression from that line that she was talking about anything other than the Enterprise.
Then why didn't she say "the Enterprise?" "Your first command" is a strangely distancing way of referring to the ship she and her listener are aboard at the moment she says it.


Kirk's chronology on StarTrek.com says he was promoted to captain and received command of the Enterprise in the same year, so it would have had to be a pretty short command if it wasn't the Enterprise.
As zarkon says, a destroyer-class ship could be captained by someone of commander's rank. And The Making of Star Trek says explicitly that Kirk did have an earlier command, and that predates StarTrek.com by decades. It was written during the production of the original series by a journalist who had extensive access to the production staff and documents. It probably reflects the creators' original intentions better than any later source.
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Old June 7 2014, 03:13 PM   #42
CaffeineAddict
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Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

Christopher wrote: View Post
CaffeineAddict wrote: View Post
I've never got the impression from that line that she was talking about anything other than the Enterprise.
Then why didn't she say "the Enterprise?" "Your first command" is a strangely distancing way of referring to the ship she and her listener are aboard at the moment she says it.


Kirk's chronology on StarTrek.com says he was promoted to captain and received command of the Enterprise in the same year, so it would have had to be a pretty short command if it wasn't the Enterprise.
As zarkon says, a destroyer-class ship could be captained by someone of commander's rank. And The Making of Star Trek says explicitly that Kirk did have an earlier command, and that predates StarTrek.com by decades. It was written during the production of the original series by a journalist who had extensive access to the production staff and documents. It probably reflects the creators' original intentions better than any later source.
OK, all fair points. but...
I felt her saying "your first command" was the writers way of telling us this was Kirk's first command without having to spell it out.
The Making of Star Trek may say so, but that doesn't make it canon, does it?
And...since when does starfleet have anything called a destroyer?

You're probably right, though, i'd been equating becoming captain with being in command, given that they make occasional reference to him being the youngest captain in the fleet, but if he commanded a ship as a lower rank (not that I remember any pre-ds9 precedent for that?) then that would explain it.
I don't recall any canon reason to think he had a pre-enterprise command, though, if you discount Dehner's line as open to interpretation either way.
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Old June 7 2014, 03:58 PM   #43
Christopher
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Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

CaffeineAddict wrote: View Post
I felt her saying "your first command" was the writers way of telling us this was Kirk's first command without having to spell it out.
And now you know it wasn't.

The Making of Star Trek may say so, but that doesn't make it canon, does it?
"Canon" is beside the point. TMoST, as I said, was written during the production of TOS by an author who was immersed in that production, directly interviewed its creators, and had access to its production memos. It reflects the plans and intentions of the show's creators better than any other source. I'm always surprised when I encounter people who haven't read it, because it should be essential reading for anyone who's more than casually interested in Star Trek.

TOS was, after all, made mostly by WWII veterans, people who had some insight into how the military works. And they would've therefore been aware that commanders need to work their way up from smaller ships before they're given command of the biggest capital ships.


And...since when does starfleet have anything called a destroyer?
The actual line in TMoST -- which, I cannot stress enough, is immensely worth reading -- is, "Kirk rose very rapidly through the ranks and received his first command (the equivalent of a destroyer-class spaceship) while still quite young." So no, not an actual destroyer, but an analogous category of vessel, a smaller craft with a smaller crew. Perhaps something analogous to the Oberth-class science vessels of the movie era.

Several works of tie-in fiction have referenced Kirk having prior commands before the Enterprise. DC Comics's first annual showed him being transferred to the Enterprise from the Saladin, which was named for a destroyer-class vessel in Franz Joseph Schnaubelt's Star Fleet Technical Manual, though it was drawn to look like a Baton Rouge-class ship from the Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology. Not long thereafter, the novel Enterprise: The First Adventure by Vonda N. McIntyre -- which clearly drew on TMoST for some of its specifics -- showed Kirk in command of the Lydia Sutherland, described as a "little cruiser" with about half the Enterprise's crew complement. And the "Star-Crossed" storyline by Howard Weinstein in DC's second TOS series showed Kirk's first command as the Miranda-class USS Oxford. I don't think there's ever been a tie-in claiming that the Enterprise was Kirk's first command -- probably because all the authors read TMoST. This has always been the default assumption.


I don't recall any canon reason to think he had a pre-enterprise command, though, if you discount Dehner's line as open to interpretation either way.
And I don't see any reason to default to the assumption that he didn't, because that's the less likely interpretation by far. As a rule, nobody would be given a ship of that class until they'd gained some command experience. It would take extraordinary circumstances, like those in the 2009 movie, for an exception to be made. And even that exception strains credibility to the limit.
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Old June 7 2014, 03:59 PM   #44
Wally
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Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

I could be wrong, but I don't think Kirk's original Enterprise was the Federation flagship. It was just another starship until he and his crew made it famous. In fact, except for in the Abrahmsverse it always seemed to be an older design that really was fairly comparable to most of starfleet.

Picard's Enterprise seemed like it was already special even before the crew got to know each other. It was new and top of the line was even referred to as a flagship. Though, a point could be made that the Enterprise-E has not been referred to in that way yet.
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Old June 7 2014, 04:02 PM   #45
Christopher
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Re: Who Should Be the Next Captain of the Enterprise?

^No, it was never called the flagship in TOS. But it was a top-of-the-line vessel, one of only a dozen of its class. It was meant to be a member of the biggest, most advanced, most powerful class in Starfleet at the time. Keep in mind that in the US Navy at the time, the current and previous ships named Enterprise had both been aircraft carriers.
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