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Old June 8 2014, 06:19 PM   #151
LMFAOschwarz
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Re: The racist legacy of Star Trek

Kirk told it like it is to Stiles: "Leave any bigotry in your quarters. There's no room for it on the bridge."
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Old June 8 2014, 06:33 PM   #152
Joel_Kirk
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Re: The racist legacy of Star Trek

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
(Pay attention to #7 and #17).
This is exactly the sort of thing that led me to cancelling my cable tv...



It's just so condescending, it drives me up a wall. Also, can't someone win a Mayoral election, be appointed to some important position, or what have you, without being called out as "the first African-American" or "the first woman" or "first Latino" to have done so?

These people on television are always subdividing people by income level, too. You know, "Those who earn less than 50,000 a year" kind of thing. Always generalizing everyone...and it's been my experience that when you try to speak for everyone, you end up speaking for no one.
True...true...

[QUOTE=AustNerevar;9676918]
Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
ichab wrote: View Post
"You have to really be looking for racism around every corner to consider Star Trek racist."

That seems to be a common/favorite saying.

For me, it's not Star Trek as a whole, but certain aspects of it that are questionable.
I agree. This thread was really stretching to make connections between Trek and racism. That's why I'm pretty sure OP was just making stuff up to start a flame war or it's all satire.
I think it was a white male trying to start a flame war. It happens on Youtube, it happens on IMDB.

Online, people feel that they can hide behind a computer and do whatever.

Still, within that satirical post, there are some interesting points to be made.


I never really though Code of Honor was racist either. But then I've seen some of the later writers (ones who weren't around when Code was written) claim that the episode was a bit racist and shouldn't have been done. Which confused me and made me feel like I was missing something.

For what it's worth, white people can racially discriminated against as well, though, it varies in different parts of the world. Which is something I felt was left out when your earlier post claimed that white people don't have any authority to speak about racism. But that may have just not been relevant to your train of thought.
Well, let me answer that: Yes, white people can be discriminated against. It has happened in Asia, as well as Africa. However, since American media - not predominately run by people of color - has such a strong influence on the world, that partly is responsible for the white institutional presence that permeates not only America, Europe, but Africa and Asia...and Latin America.

That white institutional presence influences standards of beauty, standards of what should be racist and what shouldn't. Or, how people should be treated. Or, which interracial relationships are controversial or not...(ex: a black man opposite a non-black woman is suddenly a need for discussion on race, but a white man opposite an Asian woman is 'normal' or non-controversial).

There is a reason why some people of color change their skin, nose, hair....or feel that 'white is right.'

I've experienced racism from an author/former instructor - Asian female married to a white man - who didn't like me writing stories about black men opposite Asian and Eurasian women. (When I finally publish my story with a black man opposite a Eurasian girl I'm going to send it to her a copy).

Yeah, white people are discriminated against....but overall they're benefiting from 'white privilege.' In most cases, a white person being discriminated against is not going to be the same as a black person being discriminated against.

One thing I love about watching classic Trek is the forward thinking. Here we were, during the Civil Rights movement, during the middle of a tense Cold War with Russia, with a black female Lieutenant communications officer, on the bridge holding equal rank and peer relationships with white men, a Russian ensign, an Asian helmsman, and a logical alien. And the subject of race is never brought up. Uhura and Sulu are never treated any differently than any other crew member. Even the casual racism that you saw in everyday television (that sometimes was progressive even then) wasn't really prevalent in Star Trek. From the get-go, Uhura was a valued officer on the bridge.

Another thing, in the pilot, the first officer was a woman. It gets me when people say TOS was sexist because it focused on sex a lot. It did do that, but it didn't objectify all women as only sex objects. The first officer before Spock, was a woman and she wasn't treated as a sex object. Lt. Uhura was a very important bridge officer. Putting aside Turnabout Intruder (which has been all but decanonized by Enterprise) there was nothing to suggest that women couldn't go as far in Starfleet as any of the men could.

Star Trek is beautiful to me, for these reasons. It has always been ahead of its time.
The idea of a forward society is there. Overall, Star Trek isn't racist or sexist. It's just certain things - again, because of the people behind the scenes - that are questionable because there weren't or aren't a diverse group of voices out there.

However, with that said: We're still talking about it - Star Trek - today, which is obvious how much of an impact the franchise has been. And, I feel over time it's probably going to go through more changes....or it can be changed depending who is running the show or contributing to the show. And, whether or not it can truly build on that idea of a forward society or continue with the 'questionable things' remains to be seen.
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Old June 8 2014, 08:27 PM   #153
Armored Saint
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Re: The racist legacy of Star Trek

publiusr wrote: View Post
I do seem toremember in one book that TNG was considered White America in space--but that was stretching it.
Star Trek has ever been quite US-centric, but not enough to consider TNG as White America in space (The Omega Glory yes, of course ).

As I arealdy said in another topic, STIV was more plurastic than former movies: the Saratoga's Captain (of course), the Yorktown's Captain (a stong "exotic" and real accent), a lot of alien extras.

Perhaps the most stretchy analysis about ethno-raciality in Star Trek is the emphazis on fact some people shown on screen are all blonde and blue eyes (the Edos or the Hill people from Neural). It' really close to Godwin.
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Old June 8 2014, 09:03 PM   #154
Merry Christmas
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Re: The racist legacy of Star Trek

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
I remember when Code of Honor first aired, I thought to myself "Hey, that's pretty cool, Star Trek never did this before!"
My thoughts as well, they should have had more "black planets," also arab planets, east asian planets, india planets, latin planets ...

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
The episode is 'Rapey' because a woman is kidnapped with the explicit intent of forcefully having sex with her.
You've completely misunderstood the episode.

Lutan wanted Yar to fight and kill his wife Yareena, Lutan had absolutely no personal or sexual interest in Yar. Any interest Lutan showed toward Yar was a pretense to insight Yareena's jealousy, so that she would challenge Yar to a duel.

By dialog, Lutan had tried this before, but Yareena kept killing her opponents.

This (the duel) was the only way in their society that Lutan could directly gain his wife's power and wealth.

Interesting point though about most black actors are romantically paired with other black actors, that's probably the best argument or actual racism raised in this thread.
I noticed this with Ben Sisko, both his wives were black, and alien romances too (but he did screw mirror Dax).

Most forehead alien races have the same distribution of skin tone as the general population of Hollywood extras.
Racial composition of Los Angeles in 1990 was about 53% white, that isn't what we saw on the show in terms of promanate guest stars.

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Old June 8 2014, 09:31 PM   #155
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Re: The racist legacy of Star Trek

^^^
Do you mean "prominent"? "Promanate" is an Italian verb for "issue, spread, distribute".
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Old June 8 2014, 11:24 PM   #156
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Re: The racist legacy of Star Trek

Star Trek is far from racist, and in one particular TOS ep, even used a bit of dialogue to show that racism (at least on Earth) had been eliminated.

In "The Savage Curtain" the persona of Abraham Lincoln meets Uhura, and refers to her, quite gently, and without intention of offense as "a charming negress". He then apologizes to her, stating that he realized that such a phrase often meant something offensive to her and her people. Uhura simply smiles and says something to the effect of "Why should I be offended, sir? It is not a misnomer.". (as I said....words to that effect).

However, as it is shown in later series, racism has not been eliminated when it comes to interstellar relations. Some Starfleet officers had epithets for Cardassians....spoonheads, I believe.
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Old June 9 2014, 05:03 AM   #157
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Re: The racist legacy of Star Trek

Maurice wrote: View Post
Promanate" is an Italian verb for "issue, spread, distribute".
Yes, that was the problem, the show wasn't "issued" enough yellow, brown and black people.

Those requisition forms could be a bitch.

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Old June 9 2014, 09:56 AM   #158
Sleigh Ride
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Re: The racist legacy of Star Trek

Definition of racism (n)

Bing Dictionary
ra·cism
[ ráy sìzzəm ]

  1. animosity toward other races: prejudice or animosity against people who belong to other races
  2. belief in racial superiority: the belief that people of different races have different qualities and abilities, and that some races are inherently superior or inferior
...only examples of the above definitions I can think of in Star Trek were exhibited by the extra-terrestrials...

...and it seems to me we forgot about the OP about 300 pages ago...good thing

...and I am still proud and impressed with you Posters and this Board...Huzzah to you all...especially all you Purps (Purple People)

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Old June 9 2014, 01:19 PM   #159
Forbin
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Re: The racist legacy of Star Trek

Coming in at the end, with no time to read 11 pages of probably very entertaining posts, but my immediate reaction to the OP was - how the hell is Khan a "white guy?" A Mexican actor playing an Indian character is a white guy?
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Old June 9 2014, 02:12 PM   #160
Yanks
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Re: The racist legacy of Star Trek

The only time I personally felt Star Trek was "racist" (or more accurately was "WTF"...) was TNG's episode Code of Honour.

Uhura took part in many firsts in TV abeit she didn't get alot of meat with that part, but that's 60's TV, not trek in my opinion.

Geordi was another major position, Chief Engineer is nothing to spit at. I do think they would have given him "more" but his acting didn't quite allow that.

Sisko - first black Commanding Officer to anchor a series.

Travis in Enterprise, another smaller part but positionally important. Like Uhura, he just wasn't part of the "big three".

Don't agree with much of anything in OP, but this should always be an open topic.

Don't forget trek also gave us the first woman Commanding Officer to anchor a series.

Trek has done lots of thing right, some wrong, but to say it is inherently racist is nuts if you ask me.
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Old June 9 2014, 02:31 PM   #161
AustNerevar
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Re: The racist legacy of Star Trek

Forbin wrote: View Post
Coming in at the end, with no time to read 11 pages of probably very entertaining posts, but my immediate reaction to the OP was - how the hell is Khan a "white guy?" A Mexican actor playing an Indian character is a white guy?
Maybe JJ Abrams or Bob Orci is actually OP?

They cast nuKhan as English allegedly because they thought it would be racist to "demonize anyone of color".
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Old June 9 2014, 02:41 PM   #162
Santa Kang
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Re: The racist legacy of Star Trek

AustNerevar wrote: View Post
Forbin wrote: View Post
Coming in at the end, with no time to read 11 pages of probably very entertaining posts, but my immediate reaction to the OP was - how the hell is Khan a "white guy?" A Mexican actor playing an Indian character is a white guy?
Maybe JJ Abrams or Bob Orci is actually OP?

They cast nuKhan as English allegedly because they thought it would be racist to "demonize anyone of color".
Well, Orci is a Mexican, so maybe that was a factor.

As for Forbin's question, "White" expands and contracts as needed.
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Old June 9 2014, 02:55 PM   #163
AustNerevar
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Re: The racist legacy of Star Trek

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
AustNerevar wrote: View Post
Forbin wrote: View Post
Coming in at the end, with no time to read 11 pages of probably very entertaining posts, but my immediate reaction to the OP was - how the hell is Khan a "white guy?" A Mexican actor playing an Indian character is a white guy?
Maybe JJ Abrams or Bob Orci is actually OP?

They cast nuKhan as English allegedly because they thought it would be racist to "demonize anyone of color".
Well, Orci is a Mexican, so maybe that was a factor.

As for Forbin's question, "White" expands and contracts as needed.
I doubt Orci would care. Intentionally casting a white man to play a character who is Indian, because you think it's racist to have an ethnic villain is racist itself.

Not to mention, insulting to the intelligence of the viewers, inconsistent, and frankly a little childish.
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Old June 9 2014, 03:56 PM   #164
Joel_Kirk
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Re: The racist legacy of Star Trek

Yanks wrote: View Post
The only time I personally felt Star Trek was "racist" (or more accurately was "WTF"...) was TNG's episode Code of Honour.

Uhura took part in many firsts in TV abeit she didn't get alot of meat with that part, but that's 60's TV, not trek in my opinion.

Geordi was another major position, Chief Engineer is nothing to spit at. I do think they would have given him "more" but his acting didn't quite allow that.

Sisko - first black Commanding Officer to anchor a series.

Travis in Enterprise, another smaller part but positionally important. Like Uhura, he just wasn't part of the "big three".

Don't agree with much of anything in OP, but this should always be an open topic.

Don't forget trek also gave us the first woman Commanding Officer to anchor a series.

Trek has done lots of thing right, some wrong, but to say it is inherently racist is nuts if you ask me.
Your post is interesting:

1. As aforementioned, I found nothing "racist" in Code of Honor. (That just seems to be a white 'thang' on Star Trek boards).

2. Uhura was hindered by 60s television, and seems to be one of the 'big three' in the current movies. (I hate that term 'big three' btw).

3. Geordi could have been more.

4. Sisko was a badass.

5. Travis was ignored, and came off token-ish, imo.

6. You mention Janeway....Good. There is also the female captain in Enterprise, which de-canonizes 'Turnabout Intruder.' (Something ENT actually did well!)

7. What about Asians? Even though Kim is the stereotypical weak Asian guy, Sulu in the 60s series is cool - albeit hindered by Shatner and 60s television - and in the movies is given some scenes to shine.

'Race' isn't just a black/white thing.

8. As aforementioned, the OP, who I don't believe is a black person but an individual trying to start a flame war, does bring up some interesting points. Usually whites, due to the aforementioned 'white privilege' don't see racism where people of color do.
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Old June 9 2014, 04:02 PM   #165
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Re: The racist legacy of Star Trek

AustNerevar wrote: View Post

I doubt Orci would care. Intentionally casting a white man to play a character who is Indian, because you think it's racist to have an ethnic villain is racist itself.

Not to mention, insulting to the intelligence of the viewers, inconsistent, and frankly a little childish.
Well, that sounds like nuTrek all around.
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