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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 6 2014, 09:23 AM   #166
BigJake
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Re: One Year Later: Star Trek Into Darkness

martok2112 wrote: View Post
Just because there is a vocal minority of Trek fans that disliked the JJ Abrams films, it doesn't invalidate their opinions . . . if they did watch the whole movie, and disliked it, well, I respect their opinion of dislike. Many often give very good reasons as to why they disliked it. However, their reasons are just as personal and subjective as anyone else's reasons for liking it.
And likewise, reasons for liking it are just as subjective, which is what some people can't seem to stomach. And which is why the conversation about quality is so often diverted into conversations about commercial success, the latter being offered as a falsely "objective" substitute.

Likewise, BTW, with the constant attempts to divert the issue into being about "a vocal minority of Trek fans" instead of being about the audience. I gave youse side-eye about it before, and I'll give it again: it is rhetorical sillybuggers and must needs be called so for love of the Federation and Gornian nerdazoids everywhere and everywhen.
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Old June 6 2014, 09:35 AM   #167
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Re: One Year Later: Star Trek Into Darkness

BigJake wrote: View Post
martok2112 wrote: View Post
Just because there is a vocal minority of Trek fans that disliked the JJ Abrams films, it doesn't invalidate their opinions . . . if they did watch the whole movie, and disliked it, well, I respect their opinion of dislike. Many often give very good reasons as to why they disliked it. However, their reasons are just as personal and subjective as anyone else's reasons for liking it.
And likewise, reasons for liking it are just as subjective, which is what some people can't seem to stomach. And which is why the conversation about quality is so often diverted into conversations about commercial success, the latter being offered as a falsely "objective" substitute.

Likewise, BTW, with the constant attempts to divert the issue into being about "a vocal minority of Trek fans" instead of being about the audience. I gave youse side-eye about it before, and I'll give it again: it is rhetorical sillybuggers and must needs be called so for love of the Federation and Gornian nerdazoids everywhere and everywhen.
Side-eye don' confront me, long as I get my money on Friday.

But you're right....and that is what goes to my point about people "overvaluing" their own opinions, and mistaking said opinions for "fact". Whether one likes a work or not, it is subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Old June 6 2014, 09:42 AM   #168
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Re: One Year Later: Star Trek Into Darkness

martok2112 wrote: View Post
Side-eye don' confront me, long as I get my money on Friday.
Everybody funny. Now you funny too.
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Old June 6 2014, 10:04 AM   #169
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Re: One Year Later: Star Trek Into Darkness

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martok2112 wrote: View Post
Side-eye don' confront me, long as I get my money on Friday.
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LOL! I love that song!

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Old June 6 2014, 10:35 AM   #170
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Re: One Year Later: Star Trek Into Darkness

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
For fucks sake...

I am not arguing that the film was not a commercial success. Shit I haven't even stated my personal opinion of the film.

What I dislike greatly is that people are using commercial success as the most important factor of whether or not STID was a good movie. And they are using it to berate contradictory opinions of the film. That's ridiculous.


Take every Star Wars fan on the planet and survey them. Do you think The Phantom Menace is going to win the vote of best Star Wars movie? Honestly?
Would our very own rating thread do? 729 votes and the majority love it.
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Old June 6 2014, 02:00 PM   #171
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Re: One Year Later: Star Trek Into Darkness

So, perusing the last couple of pages, let me get something straight in my head: it's all relative? Is there in truth, no beauty?

Ten percent of a group may have their subjective reasons for disliking something, but if 90 percent of the subjective opinions of that group of people like the thing, can't one infer from that that the thing must be popular with the group? Isn't popularity a measure of success?

One can drive by a restaurant and say to a friend in the car, "Don't ever eat there, that place stinks," and the friend may raise an eyebrow if he notices the parking lot is overflowing and the line to get in is out the door.

Let's throw a general question out there. What makes a movie successful? Hell, let's back up a step and ask the most basic question. What is success in the first place?

And then let's address the big question straight on. Was STID a success?
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Old June 6 2014, 03:01 PM   #172
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Re: One Year Later: Star Trek Into Darkness

BillJ wrote: View Post
Watching Into Darkness now on EPIX. Still a fun ride.
I forgot who gets it after EPIX. Was it FX that paid 28 million for a movie nobody likes anymore?

Frankly, I think they need to stop basing broadcast fees on the theatrical gross in that market. It should be based on what the vocal minority have to say about its overall quality.

Then we would know life is just as unfair as they want it to be.

.
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Old June 6 2014, 04:05 PM   #173
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Re: One Year Later: Star Trek Into Darkness

Franklin wrote: View Post
And then let's address the big question straight on. Was STID a success?
Star Trek right now just feels stuck, forgotten by the general audience and partially abandoned by those who made it. Trek09 certainly brought Star Trek back in a big way, but STID didn't do much to keep it interesting. If all you can do is tell the same story a different way, you're going to get diminishing returns.
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Old June 6 2014, 04:21 PM   #174
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Re: One Year Later: Star Trek Into Darkness

Jeyl wrote: View Post
If all you can do is tell the same story a different way, you're going to get diminishing returns.
Except that it did about $80 million more worldwide.
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Old June 6 2014, 04:43 PM   #175
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Re: One Year Later: Star Trek Into Darkness

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
And then let's address the big question straight on. Was STID a success?
If all you can do is tell the same story a different way, you're going to get diminishing returns.
If by that you mean it was a tweaking of TWOK, re-watch TWOK. The movies are nothing alike except Khan is in both.

Well, they are alike in one thematic way. Khan was essential to Kirk's character growth in both movies. In TWOK, the conflict with Khan was the vehicle by which Kirk rediscovered his youth and relevance. In STID, dealing with Khan was how Kirk finally learned what it took to earn and keep the captain's chair. Other than that, two different movies.
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Old June 6 2014, 05:58 PM   #176
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Re: One Year Later: Star Trek Into Darkness

It's never heresy to discuss flaws in good, or even great movies. You'll find hippies in THE GODFATHER after James Caan's death. I enjoyed STID and PROMETHEUS even more so. PROMETHEUS has lots of intelligent detractors. So there should be zero issue critiquing the almost-as-good INTO DARKNESS.
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Old June 6 2014, 06:25 PM   #177
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Re: One Year Later: Star Trek Into Darkness

Franklin wrote: View Post
If by that you mean it was a tweaking of TWOK, re-watch TWOK. The movies are nothing alike except Khan is in both.
Of course, a classic scene of TWOK is blatantly ripped off, but that's still just one sequence. Add in the presence of Carol Marcus - because if you've got Khan you must also have Carol Marcus, or something? - and that's about it. Everything else about the film is distinct from TWOK.
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Old June 6 2014, 06:55 PM   #178
Jeyl
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Re: One Year Later: Star Trek Into Darkness

BillJ wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
If all you can do is tell the same story a different way, you're going to get diminishing returns.
Except that it did about $80 million more worldwide.
Made more than the last movie internationally (where Star Trek doesn't perform as well), but less domestically (where it usually performs well). Why did this film do better internationally than the last one? One word. Sherlock.

Franklin wrote:
If by that you mean it was a tweaking of TWOK, re-watch TWOK. The movies are nothing alike except Khan is in both.
Nope. I'm not talking about TWOK. I'm talking about Trek09, the one before STID. It's got all the same issues with Kirk getting in trouble with Starfleet, Kirk and Spock having fits with one another, a bad guy who wants vengeance over incorrect assumptions, Pike convincing Kirk to join him while the two are in a bar, the bad guy specifically targets and attacks Starfleet headquarters, Kirk and someone else space jump from one ship to another (Kirk even brings it up), the crew finally end up together on the bridge and we're left with the same exact promise that the last movie gave us.

Unless the next film directly follows up on some event from this movie, Star Trek Into Darkness is a completely skippable film. And with everyone's direction being "You don't need to have seen the last one to understand this one", I'm betting that nothing will be carried over.
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Old June 6 2014, 07:38 PM   #179
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Re: One Year Later: Star Trek Into Darkness

It's the same argument again and again and again.
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Old June 6 2014, 07:47 PM   #180
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Re: One Year Later: Star Trek Into Darkness

martok2112 wrote: View Post
In my band in New Orleans, when we play "Roadhouse Blues" by The Doors, I always throw in some stuff from "One Bourbon, One Scotch, One Beer" in the middle of it.
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