RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,196
Posts: 5,345,732
Members: 24,603
Currently online: 774
Newest member: localyokel

TrekToday headlines

Funko Mini Spock
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23

IDW Publishing Comic Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23

A Baby For Saldana
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23

Klingon Beer Arrives In The US
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

Star Trek: Prelude To Axanar
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

Abrams Announces Star Wars: Force For Change Sweepstakes
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

New Funko Trek Figure
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Saldana As A Role Model
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

San Diego Comic-Con Trek Fan Guide
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Cumberbatch As Turing
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 26 2014, 08:15 PM   #1
DS9forever
Fleet Captain
 
Is Alexander still the ambassador to Kronos?

I don't think the character has been seen for a while.
DS9forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2014, 08:23 PM   #2
Deranged Nasat
Vice Admiral
 
Deranged Nasat's Avatar
 
Location: I am here. You are here too. Yes.
Re: Is Alexander still the ambassador to Kronos?

I'm pretty certain that Ambassador Rozhenko was mentioned in The Poisoned Chalice.

Was it The Poisoned Chalice? Definitely a "recent" book.

Something about setting up a potential meeting with Chancellor Martok and possibly Emperor Kahless, assuming the latter isn't on Walkabout again.

Keeping track of these Klingons is difficult, isn't it?
__________________
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.
Deranged Nasat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2014, 10:12 AM   #3
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Is Alexander still the ambassador to Kronos?

^^ However, The Poisoned Chalice was set during the interim administration, and A Time for War, A Time for Peace established that all Federation Ambassadors to foreign states routinely submit their resignations when a new Federation President is inaugurated, to give that President the option of either re-appointing them or appointing someone else. So now that President zh'Tarash has taken office, it's entirely possible that Alexander may have resigned and been replaced.

Which I really hope is the case. Seriously, I love War/Peace and Articles, and I love KRAD, but I could never quite swallow the idea of a 13-year-old serving as Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire. (Even if a 13-year-old three-quarters-Klingon is the biological/cultural equivalent of someone in their early-to-mid 20s.)
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2014, 08:53 PM   #4
Enterprise1701
Captain
 
Enterprise1701's Avatar
 
Location: Sol III, Sector 001, 2014 C.E.
Re: Is Alexander still the ambassador to Kronos?

I don't think interim Federation presidents change ambassadors since they serve for less than 60 days. Worf didn't submit his resignation to Ra'ch B'ullhy; he did it to Bacco after she was inaugurated.
Enterprise1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2014, 09:23 PM   #5
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Is Alexander still the ambassador to Kronos?

Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
I don't think interim Federation presidents change ambassadors since they serve for less than 60 days. Worf didn't submit his resignation to Ra'ch B'ullhy; he did it to Bacco after she was inaugurated.
Right. That's why I said "new Federation President," not "new Federation President Pro Temp," and why I contrasted it to the interim administration. The President Pro Temp is a different office from the President.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2014, 11:53 PM   #6
chelly
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Is Alexander still the ambassador to Kronos?

Sci wrote: View Post
^^ However, The Poisoned Chalice was set during the interim administration, and A Time for War, A Time for Peace established that all Federation Ambassadors to foreign states routinely submit their resignations when a new Federation President is inaugurated, to give that President the option of either re-appointing them or appointing someone else. So now that President zh'Tarash has taken office, it's entirely possible that Alexander may have resigned and been replaced.

Which I really hope is the case. Seriously, I love War/Peace and Articles, and I love KRAD, but I could never quite swallow the idea of a 13-year-old serving as Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire. (Even if a 13-year-old three-quarters-Klingon is the biological/cultural equivalent of someone in their early-to-mid 20s.)
I am pretty sure they aged the character up in DS9, I highly doubt the klingons would let a 13 year old near their ships. I assume in the ds9 episode he was late teens at the youngest early very early 20's at the oldest. I am bad at remembering the years in which everything happened but wasn't it about 10 years between ds9 and the borg attack?

OH and Alexander, I believe in one of the books after the borg was gone Worf mentioned talking to ALexander. I can't remember if he was mentioned since then. He tends along with some other family members get neglected in the novel verse.
chelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2014, 12:29 AM   #7
Deranged Nasat
Vice Admiral
 
Deranged Nasat's Avatar
 
Location: I am here. You are here too. Yes.
Re: Is Alexander still the ambassador to Kronos?

To be fair, the epilogue of A Time For War, A Time For Peace did pretty much confirm that Giancarlo Wu is going to be keeping Alexander afloat while he works things out. But yes, it is rather silly (no offence to KRAD, whose work I too really enjoy). The only part of that novel that never really quite worked for me.

That said, maybe the Federation thinks "this having-our-ambassador-be-part-of-the-Chancellor's-House thing has worked pretty well, let's just keep to it - it'll seem normal to the Klingons anyway, they view the rest of the family in terms of the father and their politics are patrilineal so, really, it'll be like Worf never left as far as they're concerned. We can put our words in and they'll come out to Klingon ears as Honourable Son of Worf, House Martok, Speaks For His Liege, The President". Or something? Of course, the Klingons view an individual in terms of their bloodline - Alexander presumably shares in the honour accumulated by his parents when they held the role, and a possible slight against that family's honour is a slight against the Chancellor's too, since the defunct House of Mogh falls within the House of Martok. Yes, he only has 13 years of life experience, but he's the right sort of 13-year-old. Anything that helps keep the Klingons from mentally substituting what your ambassador says with "blah blah blah peace, blah blah blah pointless hand-wringing, blah blah blah Kinshaya are people too, blah blah blah..."?

As for youth on ships, I'm often rather baffled that there aren't actual children on at least some Klingon ships. "The son of a Klingon is a man the day he can hold a blade", after all. They wouldn't have actual posts, presumably, but they could clean out disruptor casings, perform other simple maintenance, serve gagh, hit the Pheben cleaners over the head with a stick when they're not being fast enough, things like that. All the while taking in the realities of life in the fleet.
__________________
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.

Last edited by Deranged Nasat; May 28 2014 at 12:40 AM.
Deranged Nasat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2014, 01:31 AM   #8
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Is Alexander still the ambassador to Kronos?

chelly wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
^^ However, The Poisoned Chalice was set during the interim administration, and A Time for War, A Time for Peace established that all Federation Ambassadors to foreign states routinely submit their resignations when a new Federation President is inaugurated, to give that President the option of either re-appointing them or appointing someone else. So now that President zh'Tarash has taken office, it's entirely possible that Alexander may have resigned and been replaced.

Which I really hope is the case. Seriously, I love War/Peace and Articles, and I love KRAD, but I could never quite swallow the idea of a 13-year-old serving as Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire. (Even if a 13-year-old three-quarters-Klingon is the biological/cultural equivalent of someone in their early-to-mid 20s.)
I am pretty sure they aged the character up in DS9, I highly doubt the klingons would let a 13 year old near their ships.
I mean, there are only two possibilities:

Either K'Ehleyr gave birth to Alexander in 2359 as a result of her relationship with Worf before TNG began, or she gave birth to him as a result of their brief resumption of their relationship in 2365 in the episode "The Emissary."

If Alexander was born in 2359, then he was 15 when he appeared in DS9 Season Six (2374) and 20 when he was appointed Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire (2379).

If Alexander was born in 2366, then he was 8 when he appeared in DS9 Season Six (2374), and 13 when he was appointed Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire (2379).

Either way, it strains credibility.

I assume in the ds9 episode he was late teens at the youngest early very early 20's at the oldest. I am bad at remembering the years in which everything happened but wasn't it about 10 years between ds9 and the borg attack?
Nope.

The year breakdowns are as follows:

Pre-TNG Worf/K'Ehleyr relationship (Alexander possibly born) = 2359
TNG Season One = 2364
TNG Season Two ("The Emissary") = 2365
TNG Season Three (Alexander possibly born) = 2366
"The Best of Both Worlds, Part I" = Late 2366
"The Best of Both Worlds, Part II" = Early 2367
TNG Season Four ("Reunion" - K'Ehelyr killed, Alexander sent to live with Worf's adopted parents) = 2367
TNG Season Six/DS9 Season One = 2369
DS9 Season Six = 2374
DS9 Season Seven (Worf appointed UFP Ambassador to Qo'noS) = 2375
A Time for War, A Time for Peace (Alexander appointed ambassador) = 2379
The Fall (Bacco killed, zh'Tarash inaugurated as President) = 2385

Assuming Alexander was born in 2359 and resigns when President zh'Tarash takes office, he is an ex-ambassador at the tender age of 26. This is one year after contemporary Americans are old enough to rent a car.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2014, 02:16 AM   #9
chelly
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Is Alexander still the ambassador to Kronos?

Sci wrote: View Post
chelly wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
^^ However, The Poisoned Chalice was set during the interim administration, and A Time for War, A Time for Peace established that all Federation Ambassadors to foreign states routinely submit their resignations when a new Federation President is inaugurated, to give that President the option of either re-appointing them or appointing someone else. So now that President zh'Tarash has taken office, it's entirely possible that Alexander may have resigned and been replaced.

Which I really hope is the case. Seriously, I love War/Peace and Articles, and I love KRAD, but I could never quite swallow the idea of a 13-year-old serving as Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire. (Even if a 13-year-old three-quarters-Klingon is the biological/cultural equivalent of someone in their early-to-mid 20s.)
I am pretty sure they aged the character up in DS9, I highly doubt the klingons would let a 13 year old near their ships.
I mean, there are only two possibilities:

Either K'Ehleyr gave birth to Alexander in 2359 as a result of her relationship with Worf before TNG began, or she gave birth to him as a result of their brief resumption of their relationship in 2365 in the episode "The Emissary."

If Alexander was born in 2359, then he was 15 when he appeared in DS9 Season Six (2374) and 20 when he was appointed Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire (2379).

If Alexander was born in 2366, then he was 8 when he appeared in DS9 Season Six (2374), and 13 when he was appointed Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire (2379).

Either way, it strains credibility.

I assume in the ds9 episode he was late teens at the youngest early very early 20's at the oldest. I am bad at remembering the years in which everything happened but wasn't it about 10 years between ds9 and the borg attack?
Nope.

The year breakdowns are as follows:

Pre-TNG Worf/K'Ehleyr relationship (Alexander possibly born) = 2359
TNG Season One = 2364
TNG Season Two ("The Emissary") = 2365
TNG Season Three (Alexander possibly born) = 2366
"The Best of Both Worlds, Part I" = Late 2366
"The Best of Both Worlds, Part II" = Early 2367
TNG Season Four ("Reunion" - K'Ehelyr killed, Alexander sent to live with Worf's adopted parents) = 2367
TNG Season Six/DS9 Season One = 2369
DS9 Season Six = 2374
DS9 Season Seven (Worf appointed UFP Ambassador to Qo'noS) = 2375
A Time for War, A Time for Peace (Alexander appointed ambassador) = 2379
The Fall (Bacco killed, zh'Tarash inaugurated as President) = 2385

Assuming Alexander was born in 2359 and resigns when President zh'Tarash takes office, he is an ex-ambassador at the tender age of 26. This is one year after contemporary Americans are old enough to rent a car.
I stand corrected but I just assumed that the show runners did a SORAS (soap opera rapid aging symdrome) which can happen on tv. Though why a sci fi show did that I have no clue. Unless they were thinking oh a cute annoying kid, everyone will love it.
chelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2014, 02:43 AM   #10
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Is Alexander still the ambassador to Kronos?

There's a long history of alien or hybrid children in SF having rapid growth rates. Naomi Wildman on Voyager was played by a 10-year-old actress at a point where she was only about three years old or less. The original V had the half-alien Elizabeth grow from infancy to preadolescence in a single growth spurt in the second miniseries, then to young adulthood at the start of the weekly series. Liam Kincaid on Earth: Final Conflict went from infancy to adulthood in about 20 seconds. Isabelle on The 4400, while genetically modified rather than alien, matured from infancy to adulthood within a couple of episodes. Adria from Stargate SG-1 had a similarly swift maturation.

Then there are the cases of infants maturing to adulthood through time warps of various sorts. Angel's son Connor was taken into a dimension with a different time flow and returned moments later as a teenager. Xena's lead characters were put in suspended animation for decades and awoke to find Xena's baby daughter all grown up and (temporarily) evil. And that was after Gabrielle had given birth to a demonic daughter that grew swiftly into her exact double.

The reasons for this are pretty clear -- you're limited in what stories you can tell about babies and they're hard to work with, so if you can skip past their childhood, so much the better. Of course, even TNG has an instance of SORAS where it happens without explanation -- Molly O'Brien is three years old within a year and a half of her birth.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2014, 04:26 AM   #11
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Is Alexander still the ambassador to Kronos?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Of course, even TNG has an instance of SORAS where it happens without explanation -- Molly O'Brien is three years old within a year and a half of her birth.
"Miles! You remember that time you, me, and Molly took a shuttle trip, but then aliens from another dimension where time moves faster captured us? We were only gone for five minutes in this dimension, but another year and a half passed in theirs! Good thing they were nice about it and helped us get back once they understood what was going on. Crazy stuff, huh?"

__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2014, 08:26 AM   #12
Deranged Nasat
Vice Admiral
 
Deranged Nasat's Avatar
 
Location: I am here. You are here too. Yes.
Re: Is Alexander still the ambassador to Kronos?

Sci wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Of course, even TNG has an instance of SORAS where it happens without explanation -- Molly O'Brien is three years old within a year and a half of her birth.
"Miles! You remember that time you, me, and Molly took a shuttle trip, but then aliens from another dimension where time moves faster captured us? We were only gone for five minutes in this dimension, but another year and a half passed in theirs! Good thing they were nice about it and helped us get back once they understood what was going on. Crazy stuff, huh?"



"Not really, Keiko. That's pretty much 'a regular Tuesday' for me. You can expect pretty regular misfortune and suffering, or at least I can, much of which will of course involve you. Don't worry, you get used to it".
__________________
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.
Deranged Nasat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:35 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.