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Old May 23 2014, 06:29 AM   #1
QuarkforNagus
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Writing Women

I don't get why ST writers had such a hard time writing decent female characters.

With the exception of Seven and Whoopi Goldberg, the female characters were either annoying, bitchy and/or whiny, or completely uninteresting.

This doesn't seem to limited to ST. What's so hard about writing a compelling female character?
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Old May 23 2014, 07:03 AM   #2
Gov Kodos
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Re: Writing Women

What constitutes annoying, bitchy and/or whiny?
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Old May 23 2014, 07:17 AM   #3
-Brett-
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Re: Writing Women

It's debatable how much is faulty writing and how much is a double standard on the part of the audience.

I won't deny that there's some of the former, but it's also not entirely the writers fault.
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Old May 23 2014, 08:03 AM   #4
teacake
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Re: Writing Women

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
What constitutes annoying, bitchy and/or whiny?
Speech.
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Old May 23 2014, 08:05 AM   #5
Gov Kodos
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Re: Writing Women

teacake wrote: View Post
Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
What constitutes annoying, bitchy and/or whiny?
Speech.
Proof there is no god, that. Or if there is, god isn't a man.
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Old May 23 2014, 08:47 AM   #6
C.E. Evans
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Re: Writing Women

QuarkforNagus wrote: View Post
I don't get why ST writers had such a hard time writing decent female characters.

With the exception of Seven and Whoopi Goldberg, the female characters were either annoying, bitchy and/or whiny, or completely uninteresting.
Male characters are like that too, except they're called ambitious, determined and/or forthright, or stoic.
This doesn't seem to limited to ST. What's so hard about writing a compelling female character?
The kind of stories being told. Otherwise, they're written how a writer, producer, or studio/network wants them to be written, just like male characters.
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Old May 23 2014, 11:19 AM   #7
Ugly Sweater
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Re: Writing Women

QuarkforNagus wrote: View Post
I don't get why ST writers had such a hard time writing decent female characters.

With the exception of Seven and Whoopi Goldberg, the female characters were either annoying, bitchy and/or whiny, or completely uninteresting.

This doesn't seem to limited to ST. What's so hard about writing a compelling female character?
I'd argue Seven falls under "completely uninteresting" because she was, other than being a former Borg which really didn't come to much more than her having a body full of plot contrivances to save the day. It'd mean something if she went from bland and rigid after first being de-borged and became more, you know, human over the course of time but no always stiff and talking in a rather flat voice.
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Old May 23 2014, 12:12 PM   #8
AgentDreidel
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Re: Writing Women

Janeway, Seven, Kira, Jadzia, Ro, Guinan and Torres were all well-written characters, in my opinion.
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Old May 23 2014, 12:22 PM   #9
JarodRussell
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Re: Writing Women

Janeway was one of the cases where they tried to make her a "strong female leader" by letting her make the "tough decisions", but they completely ignored how stupid those decisions were. The result was that the character of Janeway had a completely fucked up moral compass. Many times her subordinates had to go great lengths to convince her to do the right thing, but she always stuck to her wrong path, always pulled one of those "Never dare to speak to me that way again" variations, until the last act of the episode.

The most notable example imo is the episode where the EMH goes crazy, and Seven eventually puts her foot up Janeway's ass.
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Old May 23 2014, 12:41 PM   #10
Forbin
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Re: Writing Women

How was Seven a decent female character in any way?
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Old May 23 2014, 12:55 PM   #11
JarodRussell
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Re: Writing Women

Forbin wrote: View Post
How was Seven a decent female character in any way?
On paper, she was a good character. But it was totally ruined by the decision to pointlessly sex her up.
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Old May 23 2014, 01:14 PM   #12
teacake
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Re: Writing Women

You are wrong.
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Old May 23 2014, 03:43 PM   #13
Santa Kang
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Re: Writing Women

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Forbin wrote: View Post
How was Seven a decent female character in any way?
On paper, she was a good character. But it was totally ruined by the decision to pointlessly sex her up.
Sex her up was on the paper, too.
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Old May 23 2014, 04:30 PM   #14
JarodRussell
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Re: Writing Women

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Forbin wrote: View Post
How was Seven a decent female character in any way?
On paper, she was a good character. But it was totally ruined by the decision to pointlessly sex her up.
Sex her up was on the paper, too.
When I say on paper, I mean without the visuals.

Unless the script said "REVEAL big breasted blonde in skintight catsuit."
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Old May 23 2014, 05:21 PM   #15
Forbin
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Re: Writing Women

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post

On paper, she was a good character. But it was totally ruined by the decision to pointlessly sex her up.
Sex her up was on the paper, too.
When I say on paper, I mean without the visuals.

Unless the script said "REVEAL big breasted blonde in skintight catsuit."
Or "Reveal Braga's adolescent emotionless ice queen fantasy."
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