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Old May 24 2014, 09:57 PM   #16
lostshaker
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Re: How strong is a female Vulcan?

Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
lostshaker wrote: View Post
Does physical strength of a Vulcan female really matter when she can likely make suggestive advances towards an aggressor and than render them unconscious with a VNP or get them to do her bidding with a mind meld?
What does "suggestive advances" have to do with the topic?
Nothing in and of itself. Much has been discussed about strength in a physical context, but a mental context exists too. Enterprise established that Vulcan Females have an acute sense of smell. So does that factor into the strength? It certainly is a comparative advantage under the right conditions. I used the terminology to describe a strategy or tactic, which is the real focus, in terms of an aggressor. Vulcans, who have devised the Vulcan Neck Pinch to minimize violence, would surely see the logic in using comparative advantages afforded to them by their genders. So don't focus too much on what was apparently a poor choice of words of my part, but rather on a more acute interpretation of the OP's question. The simplest answer, which has already been given, is that it will vary from individual to individual, the conditions of a given environment etc...
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Old May 24 2014, 10:53 PM   #17
JirinPanthosa
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Re: How strong is a female Vulcan?

Here's the thing about Klingon strength though, the only human characters shown to be able to go hand to hand with a Klingon are main characters.

You know how in a recently ended show I won't name for spoilery reasons the main characters were magically prevented from being killed except by each other and when they are no longer needed? Well that's just an in universe explanation for the rules that apply to all main characters of all television shows. So Sisko and Riker can go hand to hand with a Klingon because the great will of the universe intervenes on their behalf. Average security officer would get demolished in hand to hand combat with a Klingon.

I think it's reasonable to think that within a single race, strength is proportional to body size.
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Old May 25 2014, 08:55 AM   #18
Ness
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Re: How strong is a female Vulcan?

I would assume they are still three times as strong as a human and could maybe hold their own against an average man.
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Old May 25 2014, 09:27 AM   #19
Timo
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Re: How strong is a female Vulcan?

Average security officer would get demolished in hand to hand combat with a Klingon.
Yet even this does not happen. The average security officer is gunned down by a Klingon; wrestling matches or swordfights demonstrate no advantage for Klingons whatsoever, regardless of whether the combatants on either side are heroes, villains or mere sidekicks.

That is, save for DS9 "Blood Oath", where the Albino is guarded by people who look more or less like humans, but the Klingon geezers, Worf and Dax all easily defeat them in sword-vs-bayonet fighting. Only the Albino (who may or may not be a Klingon) himself has the strength to block bat'leth swings.

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Old May 25 2014, 10:55 AM   #20
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: How strong is a female Vulcan?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Average security officer would get demolished in hand to hand combat with a Klingon.
If they did then why would they be a security guard? Even the most 'average' would need extensive training and skill in hand-to-hand.

Besides Klingons have an over-inflated opinion of their abilities and prowess.
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Old May 28 2014, 12:52 AM   #21
Delta Vega
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Re: How strong is a female Vulcan?

In Season 4 of Enterprise, specifically in the Vulcan story arc, The Forge, The Awakening, Kir Shara or whatever its called, did Archer not bleach two or three Vulcans at hand to hand fighting ?

He also kicked the shit out of a Zombie Vulcan in an earlier episode, so it seems that Vulcan superstrength is only occasional, as the story dictates.
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Old May 28 2014, 01:03 AM   #22
Nightdiamond
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Re: How strong is a female Vulcan?

TOS and what Kassidy said, says 'yes'.

However a scene from "The Maquis" suggests 'no'.
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Old May 28 2014, 03:34 AM   #23
TheSubCommander
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Re: How strong is a female Vulcan?

I think it's reasonable to assume a Vulcan woman is 3 times stronger than a human woman. Since in real life on average women typically have 40-50% the upper body strength as a man, you can say on average a Vulcan woman will be somewhere around the strength of an average to above average man. It never was really revealed to my knowledge, but it wouldn't be surprising to me if T'pol had an upper body strength level comparable to Archer. Considering she probably weighs about half as much (I would guess her to be around 110 LBs, Archer probably at least 200 LBs), that isn't bad.
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Old May 28 2014, 05:08 AM   #24
Flying Spaghetti Monster
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Re: How strong is a female Vulcan?

TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
I think it's reasonable to assume a Vulcan woman is 3 times stronger than a human woman. Since in real life on average women typically have 40-50% the upper body strength as a man, you can say on average a Vulcan woman will be somewhere around the strength of an average to above average man. It never was really revealed to my knowledge, but it wouldn't be surprising to me if T'pol had an upper body strength level comparable to Archer. Considering she probably weighs about half as much (I would guess her to be around 110 LBs, Archer probably at least 200 LBs), that isn't bad.
I think T'Pol is weaker than Archer by quite a bit. In Twilight, she was unable to move the debris from her ankle, or even budge it, while Archer got it off her ankle.

Also, it has been demonstrated that female Vulcan's are perhaps less tough and resilient as female humans. In the Maquis two-parter, the female Vulcan gets knocked down a lot.
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Old May 28 2014, 08:56 AM   #25
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: How strong is a female Vulcan?

Like male Vulcans and all Romulans, a female Vulcan is as strong as the writers remember to make them at the time. ENT was terrible for Vulcan superstrength, Archer was always kicking their asses hand-to-hand. Compare with the reboot, where Ayel lifts Kirk by the throat with one hand, Nero makes a giant leap effortlessly, and Spock fights Khan hand to hand.
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Old May 28 2014, 11:03 AM   #26
Timo
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Re: How strong is a female Vulcan?

In Twilight, she was unable to move the debris from her ankle, or even budge it, while Archer got it off her ankle.
But Archer would be lifting with his legs and back, making him automatically three times stronger than somebody lifting with arms only...

Compare with the reboot, where Ayel lifts Kirk by the throat with one hand, Nero makes a giant leap effortlessly, and Spock fights Khan hand to hand.
...Which would be all the more impressive if Kirk didn't do pretty much the same things, only with the cute addition of some panting and gasping and fashionable bleeding.

Reminds me of the death of Mace Windu. So he gets burned by the Force, has both hands chopped off, and is thrown down from a building so high it tickles low-orbiting moonlets? Big deal - every one of those things was established as being survivable for a Jedi knight in the preceding movies!!

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Old May 28 2014, 12:53 PM   #27
TheSubCommander
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Re: How strong is a female Vulcan?

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
I think it's reasonable to assume a Vulcan woman is 3 times stronger than a human woman. Since in real life on average women typically have 40-50% the upper body strength as a man, you can say on average a Vulcan woman will be somewhere around the strength of an average to above average man. It never was really revealed to my knowledge, but it wouldn't be surprising to me if T'pol had an upper body strength level comparable to Archer. Considering she probably weighs about half as much (I would guess her to be around 110 LBs, Archer probably at least 200 LBs), that isn't bad.
I think T'Pol is weaker than Archer by quite a bit. In Twilight, she was unable to move the debris from her ankle, or even budge it, while Archer got it off her ankle.

Also, it has been demonstrated that female Vulcan's are perhaps less tough and resilient as female humans. In the Maquis two-parter, the female Vulcan gets knocked down a lot.
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Like male Vulcans and all Romulans, a female Vulcan is as strong as the writers remember to make them at the time. ENT was terrible for Vulcan superstrength, Archer was always kicking their asses hand-to-hand. Compare with the reboot, where Ayel lifts Kirk by the throat with one hand, Nero makes a giant leap effortlessly, and Spock fights Khan hand to hand.
Well, even Geordi was able to slap around a Romulan in The Next Phase, so inconsistency is certainly a problem. In fact,for a long time on screen, there was never a clear cut example of Romulans having super human strength. A common question that seemed to pop up was "Do Romulans have Vulcan-like strength?" Until Star Trek 2009, that was never really answered!

As for T'pol, I chalk that up to inconsistency, but then again maybe she isn't as strong as Archer. All I was saying is it wouldn't surprise me if T'pol, who is a small person, had the strength of an average to above average man, which would put her around Archer's level.

As for the female Vulcan in Maquis, could be explained by her being weak, even by human standards. I am sure Vulcans, male and female, come in all sorts of strength levels, like humans do, and not every Vulcan is going to have 3 times a human's strength. Take a very weak woman with basically the strength of an adolescent girl who might be able to dead lift 85 lbs, and compare that to Brian Shaw, one of the world's strongest men who can dead lift 985 pounds. That is nearly 12 times her strength. Then you have Becca Swanson, one of the world's strongest women, who can bench press over 500 lbs. How many guys can do that? The most I have ever done in my life was 320lbs, and that was over 10 years ago, when I worked out every day! I would be lucky if I could do 250, now, which I think is about average for a man!

Last edited by TheSubCommander; May 28 2014 at 01:04 PM.
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Old May 28 2014, 01:22 PM   #28
doctorfoto
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Re: How strong is a female Vulcan?

In the Maquis two-parter, the female Vulcan gets knocked down a lot.
I double-checked, and just for the record - Sakonna gets hit twice in the space of two episodes, both times a surprise hit to the face and both times from Dukat, a non-human. Also both times she recovers immediately. It seems Enterprise may be the better source for inconsistency.
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Old May 29 2014, 10:27 AM   #29
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: How strong is a female Vulcan?

Timo wrote: View Post
Compare with the reboot, where Ayel lifts Kirk by the throat with one hand, Nero makes a giant leap effortlessly, and Spock fights Khan hand to hand.
...Which would be all the more impressive if Kirk didn't do pretty much the same things, only with the cute addition of some panting and gasping and fashionable bleeding.
Kirk lifted someone by the throat, single-handed?
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Old May 30 2014, 08:43 PM   #30
JirinPanthosa
Commodore
 
Re: How strong is a female Vulcan?

TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
I think it's reasonable to assume a Vulcan woman is 3 times stronger than a human woman. Since in real life on average women typically have 40-50% the upper body strength as a man, you can say on average a Vulcan woman will be somewhere around the strength of an average to above average man. It never was really revealed to my knowledge, but it wouldn't be surprising to me if T'pol had an upper body strength level comparable to Archer. Considering she probably weighs about half as much (I would guess her to be around 110 LBs, Archer probably at least 200 LBs), that isn't bad.
Is that 40-50% adjusted for amount of training though? Men tend to train more than women and have more physically demanding jobs, I think the difference between an equally trained man and woman is smaller.

I'm looking at the world weightlifting records on Wikipedia and the female world records tend to be more around 70% of male world records. I think we can assume male and female military officers are given the same training.

Last edited by JirinPanthosa; May 30 2014 at 08:54 PM.
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