RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,677
Posts: 5,429,910
Members: 24,824
Currently online: 574
Newest member: Frazier101


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Fandom > Fan Art

Fan Art Post your Trek fan art here, including hobby models and collectibles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 8 2014, 08:22 PM   #91
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Yeah, the hangar deck was a cool model and all, but such a vast pressurized area basically taking up space doesn't seem like such a great idea. It would take ridiculously long to depressurize and repressurize. I guess it fit into Jefferies's philosophy that everything, including shuttles, should be accessible for maintenance and repair from inside the ship, but there's got to be some other way of going about that. Maybe something more like DS9's runabout bays, a small pressurized "pocket" for each shuttle. Or maybe an interior hangar from which the ships would be loaded into a smaller airlock for launch -- kind of like the Galactica's Viper launching system, but with airlocks instead of launch tubes.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2014, 09:23 PM   #92
MadMan1701A
Commodore
 
MadMan1701A's Avatar
 
Location: Milton, FL
Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Thinking about it, I like the small airlock idea better than having them exposed on the outside.

I was thinking about have the large docking ports for connecting to a starbase on top and bottom of the habitation sphere... maybe there could be smaller ones on either side for shuttles?

-Ricky
__________________
-=MadMan=-
Check out my new website!
MadMan's Shipyard:

www.madshipyard.com
MadMan1701A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2014, 10:46 PM   #93
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Err, how are we defining "top" and "bottom"? I thought the plan was for the sphere's gravity vector to be toward the aft of the ship, so the "top" would be the front, and the deflector ring would get in the way there, while the whole engine assembly would be on the "bottom." (Maybe you should say "dorsal" and "ventral" to avoid confusion.)
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2014, 12:06 AM   #94
MadMan1701A
Commodore
 
MadMan1701A's Avatar
 
Location: Milton, FL
Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Yeah, you're right.

I meant the two sides of the sphere not obstructed by the ring.

Dorsal, and ventral, then.

-Ricky
__________________
-=MadMan=-
Check out my new website!
MadMan's Shipyard:

www.madshipyard.com
MadMan1701A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2014, 06:44 AM   #95
Albertese
Commodore
 
Albertese's Avatar
 
Location: Portland, OR
Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

I think the one real advantage to have the traditional Trek style shuttlebay is that you can bet that alien spacecraft won't have a universal collar that can mate up to yours. So, bringing in the whole craft makes the facility more versatile since literally anything small enough to fit in the doors is now possible to link to.

If, on the other hand, nothing in your mission specs assume you'll never be mating to any but the craft assigned to your ship in the first place (or others equipped with compatible hardware) then a system of external airlocks should do nicely.

--Alex
__________________
Check out my website: www.goldtoothstudio.squarespace.com
Albertese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2014, 04:51 PM   #96
largo
Fleet Captain
 
largo's Avatar
 
Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

i'll throw in a vote for the re-oriented saucer, if for no other reason than it looks like it'd be a good parallel development to the starfleet museum lineage.

liking the big bulb design too, though.
__________________
SIG 1701-A
largo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2014, 05:49 PM   #97
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

For what it's worth both TNG and even Star Wars had an interesting idea: you use a force field that doesn't require you to depressurize the entire bay. We already have something like that today called a plasma window that's used for soldering or welding things in a vacuum I believe. So the fundamental idea is already established and in practice.

So you open your bay doors with the force field activated and you auxiliary craft just slides in and out through the field without having to depressurize the entire bay. Then you close and seal your bay doors and turn off the force field.

Just a thought.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2014, 07:27 PM   #98
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Yeah, the "pressure curtain" force field thing is old hat in sci-fi by this point, but that's exactly why I don't like it. Even if you buy it as something that could work in principle, it's problematical for holding in as large a volume of pressurized gas as in the Enterprise's hangar bay, because that would be exerting a pretty significant amount of force. And you'd still have some air molecules leaking out when ships passed through the field. It still seems to me that it'd be simpler to shunt a craft into a small launch airlock that could be quickly depressurized and then release it into space.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2014, 07:48 PM   #99
MadMan1701A
Commodore
 
MadMan1701A's Avatar
 
Location: Milton, FL
Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Yeah, this makes sense to me, also. Once it's in the airlock, they can then bring it all the way inside, to the larger shuttle bay.

They could also let alien craft in that way, too, if necessary. Assuming they were small enough.

-Ricky
__________________
-=MadMan=-
Check out my new website!
MadMan's Shipyard:

www.madshipyard.com
MadMan1701A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2014, 08:40 PM   #100
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Some years ago I already had the idea that you've been discussing: that of having a smaller airlock just large enough to hold the launching/arriving vehicle.

Another variation of this is having the auxiliary craft docking into a small holding bay and connecting (from mothership to auxiliary) via a telescoping airlock. That makes for the smallest required space needing to be pressurized.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2014, 11:44 PM   #101
USS Triumphant
Rear Admiral
 
USS Triumphant's Avatar
 
Location: Go ahead, caller. I'm listening...
Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

How about NO shuttlebays? Have a large cargo bay and a huge pad, and just beam auxiliary ships in and out.
__________________
As the brilliant philosopher once said... Everybody, have fun tonight. Everybody, Wang Chung tonight.
USS Triumphant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2014, 12:35 AM   #102
publiusr
Commodore
 
Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
publiusr wrote: View Post
You know--one of those alien video games whose title I have forgotten, where they made organisms that look like AT-ATs walking around--had something similar.
M.U.L.E. ?

I don't think so--horrible memory




Klaus wrote: View Post
Here's two quick takes on that sort of idea, one with the re-oriented saucer and one with the "traditional" saucer... impulse engines on the edges of the new one, at the back of the older style.



I like the first iteration, but the coils have to be wider.

Sauvers are better for ditching I would think:
http://www.astronautix.com/fam/lenicles.htm

At hypersonic re-entry speeds it would undergo lower heating and require less shielding. At the same time it was more maneuverable at subsonic speeds than a winged design, and could land at sea or on land without undercarriage. The symmetrical shape meant it would integrate easily into conventional booster designs, without creating excessive drag or asymmetric loads during ascent to orbit.

A Saturn V class+ HLLV could have been a saucer--highly notional
publiusr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2014, 12:38 AM   #103
MadMan1701A
Commodore
 
MadMan1701A's Avatar
 
Location: Milton, FL
Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

I don't know if I like that idea; I was even thinking about not having transporters on the ship at all... if I remember right, the only reason Star Trek had them, is because it was going to be too expensive to show the shuttle landing, right?

Maybe they would be OK if you could only beam from one platform to another. Meaning that a shuttle could deposit a pad, then let people beam down?

-Ricky
__________________
-=MadMan=-
Check out my new website!
MadMan's Shipyard:

www.madshipyard.com
MadMan1701A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2014, 02:06 AM   #104
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

The initial thought was the transporter replaced any need to show the main ship landing. But as we've seen since TOS not having a transporter doesn't have to slow down your story. A number of good SF shows did just fine without a transporter and relied solely on shuttles. Particularly today when it's all done by cgi anyway.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2014, 02:52 AM   #105
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
How about NO shuttlebays? Have a large cargo bay and a huge pad, and just beam auxiliary ships in and out.
What happens if the transporter breaks down, though? One function of shuttles is as a backup if the transporters can't be used. But if you can't launch the shuttles without a transporter, then you're redundantly out of luck.

The problem is that fiction writers want things to be as fancy and futuristic as possible, but good engineering is about keeping things simple and reliable. There's little sense, for instance, in using a powered force field in place of a simple wall or door, because a wall or door won't cease to exist if the power fails. And I've seen one or two depictions of cities where the streetlights levitated -- which would waste a ton of power compared to just sticking them on poles, and would cause them to be ruined if something interrupted their power and they all fell down and smashed on the pavement.

So something like a transporter should be saved for functions that can't be filled some other way, not just used as a flashier, more future-y alternative for something that can be done perfectly well by more conventional means.


Warped9 wrote: View Post
The initial thought was the transporter replaced any need to show the main ship landing. But as we've seen since TOS not having a transporter doesn't have to slow down your story. A number of good SF shows did just fine without a transporter and relied solely on shuttles. Particularly today when it's all done by cgi anyway.
Space: 1999 made great use of its lovely Eagles. Although once Fred Freiberger took over the writing in season 2, virtually every alien culture they encountered used teleportation.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:14 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.