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Old June 4 2014, 02:08 AM   #61
Christopher
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

^Um, vaguely, but then, if you did that, it would be something else.
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Old June 4 2014, 02:12 AM   #62
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Christopher wrote: View Post
USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
It's the wrong generation, and it might not be quite what you mean, but your description keeps making me think of Atolm's Chariot Class, Christopher.
No, that's not it at all.


MadMan1701A wrote: View Post
I just had a thought. If we're using a space warp alcubierre drive, do you even get traditional acceleration anyway? Maybe the inertial dampneners aren't even necessary, if the drive is inertial less anyway. Just a thought.
Well, you'd still need some form of conventional thrust to start yourself in the right direction before engaging warp, and for orbital maneuvering, docking, etc.
True, but would that cause enough acceleration to really bother anyone in the ship, as long as the artificial gravity is working?

I'm still thinking, but I have an idea now.

-Ricky
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Old June 4 2014, 03:28 AM   #63
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

I just don't think that orienting a spaceship's gravity vector with its thrust vector is something that needs to be justified while orienting it perpendicularly is the default. If anything, it's the other way around. It stands to reason that a spacefaring civilization would most likely spend centuries traveling in ships before they invented some kind of artificial gravity field, so there'd be a well-established tradition of ships designed with their gravity vectors either rearward due to thrust or radially outward due to rotation. And the designers of AG-equipped spaceships would most likely continue that established spacegoing tradition, instead of reverting to the orientation of ground or sea vehicles. If any ship designer did design a ship with a single shipwide gravity vector perpendicular to the direction of thrust, it would probably be seen as an atavistic affectation, tantamount to designing a jet plane to look like a trireme.

So when a fictional ship is designed that way, to me it just trumpets the fact that it was designed by an Earthbound creator from the 20th/21st century, because only someone raised with Earthbound assumptions and little experience with actual space vehicles would see that as the default. And that undermines the illusion that it's the creation of an advanced starfaring civilization.

Years ago, I came up with a design idea for a type of FTL drive that formed a cylindrical core at the center of the ship. This type of drive, as a side effect, would "leak" gravitons and thus draw things toward it, and the makers of the ships would use this side effect as the basis of the shipboard gravity -- the vessels were cylindrical and the gravity vector was inward toward the central axis, the inverse of what you'd get from a rotating centrifuge. So wherever you stood on the ship, the floors would curve downward from you to port and starboard, and the lower decks would have stronger gravity than the higher ones, by the inverse square of the distance.
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Old June 4 2014, 05:09 AM   #64
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Christopher wrote: View Post
Years ago, I came up with a design idea for a type of FTL drive that formed a cylindrical core at the center of the ship. This type of drive, as a side effect, would "leak" gravitons and thus draw things toward it, and the makers of the ships would use this side effect as the basis of the shipboard gravity -- the vessels were cylindrical and the gravity vector was inward toward the central axis, the inverse of what you'd get from a rotating centrifuge. So wherever you stood on the ship, the floors would curve downward from you to port and starboard, and the lower decks would have stronger gravity than the higher ones, by the inverse square of the distance.
So the decks were arrranged like the growth rings of a tree?

Sounds similar to H. Beam Piper's globular ships which had decks laid out like the layers of an onion with a ag source at the core.
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Old June 4 2014, 08:08 AM   #65
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Hello everyone,
I'm just dropping in to post a link I found at Crowlspace:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...11379713000041
It's a paper on artificial gravity fields for spacecraft (and no, I don't really understand it ). I admit that building one is still quite a long way off, but it's not impossible that if there's ever a starship, it could have artificial gravity. How it would be oriented is anyone's guess though.

Timon
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Old June 4 2014, 01:48 PM   #66
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

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So the decks were arrranged like the growth rings of a tree?
Basically, yeah. Although I did a later version where the inhabited portions were a set of toroidal rings set apart from the central core, with the assumption that the gravity next to the core would be very strong and you'd need to be at some distance to have Earthlike gravity. Sort of like DS9's habitat ring vis-a-vis the station core, but with gravity pulling toward the axis.
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Old June 4 2014, 09:12 PM   #67
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Taking some of the ideas here...
How about this? Something similar to the original, but with more "modern" sensibility.
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Old June 5 2014, 12:57 AM   #68
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

I like the arrangement, but it doesn't feel right.

Most Sci-Fi ships nowadays look either like spaceplanes, or long cylinders, so I want to stay away from that... if TOS hadn't existed, the basic shape of the 1701 would still be unique now, wouldn't it?

Still working on my idea... it's not coming out of my head onto paper or into Blender right.

-Ricky
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Old June 5 2014, 12:17 PM   #69
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

aalenfae wrote: View Post
Taking some of the ideas here...
How about this? Something similar to the original, but with more "modern" sensibility.
Stand it on its tail end and it looks like a stool. Sorry.
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Old June 5 2014, 06:18 PM   #70
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Maurice wrote: View Post
aalenfae wrote: View Post
Taking some of the ideas here...
How about this? Something similar to the original, but with more "modern" sensibility.
Stand it on its tail end and it looks like a stool. Sorry.
Well, I like it. The saucer is there, a primary hull, the nacelles and struts, possible elements of an Alcubierre drive... Give it a splash of color and some surface details and I'll take her around the block, see how she handles.
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Old June 5 2014, 08:22 PM   #71
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Here's two quick takes on that sort of idea, one with the re-oriented saucer and one with the "traditional" saucer... impulse engines on the edges of the new one, at the back of the older style.



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Old June 5 2014, 10:17 PM   #72
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Like I said earlier, if using a saucer it just looks better aesthetically when edge on to the direction of travel.

The problem is rationalizing the saucer shape for a space-only going vessel, hence the "warp dynamics" hand-wavium used in existing Trek.
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Old June 6 2014, 12:26 AM   #73
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Yeah, those kind of designs are arrangements that I've been thinking about and sketching. They're realistic, but still don't feel right.

Keep bringing ideas, guys.

-Ricky
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Old June 6 2014, 12:30 AM   #74
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Maybe a saucer isn't the way to go, then. One of Jefferies's original designs had a spherical hull, and we've seen this represented in the Daedalus and Olympic-class ships -- not to mention ships in other franchises like the Discovery in 2001. A sphere actually makes a lot more sense for a spacecraft hull than a saucer does, because it's one of the basic stable shapes for a pressurized hull in vacuum, the others being a torus and a cylinder with hemispheric endcaps.
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Old June 6 2014, 12:36 AM   #75
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

I like your designs, Klaus, but I really think aalenfae's has the potential to be something truly different but still adhering to the requirements for all the parts that need to be there for an Enterprise. Yours kinda make me think of what would happen if you attached a saucer to the front of XCV-330. Sorry.
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