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Old June 3 2014, 12:52 AM   #46
USS Triumphant
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

publiusr wrote: View Post
You know--one of those alien video games whose title I have forgotten, where they made organisms that look like AT-ATs walking around--had something similar.
M.U.L.E. ?
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Old June 3 2014, 12:53 AM   #47
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

If we're going to stick with the Jefferies precedent of a modular ship with a saucer section, I'd like to offer a suggestion: Flip the saucer forward 90 degrees. Get away from Earthbound thinking with the up/down vector perpendicular to the direction of motion. The "top" of the saucer would face forward and would be covered in ablative armor as a meteoroid shield -- perhaps a thick coating of cometary ice would do. The dorsal connector would extend back from its center along its axis, leading to a cylindrical engineering module -- a mushroom shape with the cap facing forward. Then extending radially from the engineering module would be maybe four struts, each leading to a nacelle.

Although if you wanted an Alcubierre-style drive, you'd need a solid toroidal collar surrounding the entire ship. Maybe some kind of nacelles that unwrap and snap together to form a toroid for warp drive, then fold back again at sublight? No, wait, like I said before, an Alcubierre drive could be used as a sublight gravity drive.
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Old June 3 2014, 01:07 AM   #48
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
I've been looking at the ship you've drawn out, and should the nacelles be "sideways" so as to line up the rings of the Alcubierre drives with the direction the ship will generally travel in? (Also, am I correct to get the impression that turning at warp would be possible by microfluctuating the power to the drives on one side or the other?)
Well, I was thinking that all four of the "donuts" are required to make a "warp bubble". Increase the power to the front two units, and you get more compressed space up front, so the ship goes forward. Same thing with the back... increase power there, and you backwards. I was thinking that the "bubble" is pretty big too... much larger than the ship. Maybe that acts like it's own deflector shield?

publiusr wrote: View Post
MadMan1701A wrote: View Post
Alright guys, I have some mock ups. I'd like to use this as a starting point, for you guys to add ideas to, tweak, and flesh out.
The only things I am really sold on, are the engines basic shape, the segmented saucer, and having the m/am engines below like that... pretty much everything else can change, though.

Talk to you guys later...

-Ricky
Make the nacelles more like the secondary hull ending in antenna farms

You know--one of those alien video games whose title I have forgotten, where they made organisms that look like AT-ATs walking around--had something similar.

To me USS Vengeance is a good place to start.

Nacelle supports more gull wing like, a bigger saucer, lower down with high nacellse for a souped up look.

uber detail

My perfect fan boy wish list--a refit era ship with those modifications, but with Super star destroyer complexity
I like the ideas of lowering the saucer, and the gull wing nacelle pylons.

What if I made the Nacelles longer, where they slightly overlap the saucer?

Christopher wrote: View Post
If we're going to stick with the Jefferies precedent of a modular ship with a saucer section, I'd like to offer a suggestion: Flip the saucer forward 90 degrees. Get away from Earthbound thinking with the up/down vector perpendicular to the direction of motion. The "top" of the saucer would face forward and would be covered in ablative armor as a meteoroid shield -- perhaps a thick coating of cometary ice would do. The dorsal connector would extend back from its center along its axis, leading to a cylindrical engineering module -- a mushroom shape with the cap facing forward. Then extending radially from the engineering module would be maybe four struts, each leading to a nacelle.

Although if you wanted an Alcubierre-style drive, you'd need a solid toroidal collar surrounding the entire ship. Maybe some kind of nacelles that unwrap and snap together to form a toroid for warp drive, then fold back again at sublight? No, wait, like I said before, an Alcubierre drive could be used as a sublight gravity drive.
I like both ideas, but it wouldn't resemble the Enterprise, at all. I'm really wanting to keep a similar profile.

I just finished reading a bunch of Ian Douglas novels, and his ships are almost exactly what you describe.

-Ricky
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Old June 3 2014, 03:20 AM   #49
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

MadMan1701A wrote: View Post
I like both ideas, but it wouldn't resemble the Enterprise, at all. I'm really wanting to keep a similar profile.
The idea is put out there for anyone who might want to try it.
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Old June 3 2014, 10:07 PM   #50
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Sure, that's OK.

It's actually had me thinking... I want to try to incorporate that idea, and keep a saucer section, with some kind of shielding on the front.

Maybe I can make it part of the lower radiation shield?

-Ricky
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Old June 3 2014, 11:02 PM   #51
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

My suggestion is to keep a saucer section, just oriented differently. All the pieces are there -- saucer, engineering hull, nacelles, connective struts -- but the arrangement is changed, and not so limited by Earthbound, horizontal thinking.
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Old June 3 2014, 11:08 PM   #52
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

I like the idea myself, and I've actually tried to imagine that before. But the image that keeps getting stuck in my head is Spacedock with some nacelles strapped on.
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Old June 3 2014, 11:18 PM   #53
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Christopher wrote: View Post
My suggestion is to keep a saucer section, just oriented differently. All the pieces are there -- saucer, engineering hull, nacelles, connective struts -- but the arrangement is changed, and not so limited by Earthbound, horizontal thinking.
B.J. wrote: View Post
I like the idea myself, and I've actually tried to imagine that before. But the image that keeps getting stuck in my head is Spacedock with some nacelles strapped on.
Yeah, that's what's coming to my mind, too.

Since we have artificial gravity, we can really orient the habitable areas whichever way we want, right?

If the saucer were rotated 90 degrees, it would make perfect sense if our only method of gravity production was acceleration, but I'm not sure if I want to go that way.

I'm going to doodle some more, see if anything good comes out.

-Ricky
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Old June 3 2014, 11:59 PM   #54
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Madman,
I have to be honest. The sketch looks too much like current Trek with just the details changed. Not really a "re-imagine the Enterprise as if the show had never existed" concept.

I also think trying to use a disc shaped primary hull oriented perpendicular to the direction of travel just doesn't work aesthetically.

So, it either becomes a choice of using it horizontal to the direction of travel, which we've seen in 1000's of star trek ships, or come up with something completely different.
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Old June 4 2014, 12:32 AM   #55
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

MadMan1701A wrote: View Post
Since we have artificial gravity, we can really orient the habitable areas whichever way we want, right?
Yeah, but why would we want to? If the goal is to design something that looks like it belongs in space, then I think it's counterproductive to be a slave to the Earthbound convention that a vehicle's up-down vector needs to be perpendicular to its direction of motion.


If the saucer were rotated 90 degrees, it would make perfect sense if our only method of gravity production was acceleration, but I'm not sure if I want to go that way.
It makes sense for artificial gravity too. Think of an elevator. When it accelerates or decelerates parallel to the gravity vector, you just get lighter or heavier. Whereas on a bus or subway, the acceleration pushes you forward or back. The former seems less inconvenient.

And sure, you can argue there would need to be inertial cancellation negating the effects of acceleration anyway, but I think the necessary effect would be much simpler if it were acting in the direction of motion, because then you'd simply have to increase or decrease the strength of the gravity field to cancel out the acceleration, rather than applying a force perpendicular to the gravity field. That's a more complicated approach that results from Earthbound thinking.



sojourner wrote: View Post
I also think trying to use a disc shaped primary hull oriented perpendicular to the direction of travel just doesn't work aesthetically.
I'm visualizing more of a dome shape, actually.
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Old June 4 2014, 12:58 AM   #56
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

It's the wrong generation, and it might not be quite what you mean, but your description keeps making me think of Atolm's Chariot Class, Christopher.



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Old June 4 2014, 01:16 AM   #57
MadMan1701A
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

sojourner wrote: View Post
Madman,
I have to be honest. The sketch looks too much like current Trek with just the details changed. Not really a "re-imagine the Enterprise as if the show had never existed" concept.

I also think trying to use a disc shaped primary hull oriented perpendicular to the direction of travel just doesn't work aesthetically.

So, it either becomes a choice of using it horizontal to the direction of travel, which we've seen in 1000's of star trek ships, or come up with something completely different.
Yeah, you're right. I'm re-thinking the saucer section big time... but I'm still trying to keep my profile. :-)

Christopher wrote: View Post
MadMan1701A wrote: View Post
Since we have artificial gravity, we can really orient the habitable areas whichever way we want, right?
Yeah, but why would we want to? If the goal is to design something that looks like it belongs in space, then I think it's counterproductive to be a slave to the Earthbound convention that a vehicle's up-down vector needs to be perpendicular to its direction of motion.


If the saucer were rotated 90 degrees, it would make perfect sense if our only method of gravity production was acceleration, but I'm not sure if I want to go that way.
It makes sense for artificial gravity too. Think of an elevator. When it accelerates or decelerates parallel to the gravity vector, you just get lighter or heavier. Whereas on a bus or subway, the acceleration pushes you forward or back. The former seems less inconvenient.

And sure, you can argue there would need to be inertial cancellation negating the effects of acceleration anyway, but I think the necessary effect would be much simpler if it were acting in the direction of motion, because then you'd simply have to increase or decrease the strength of the gravity field to cancel out the acceleration, rather than applying a force perpendicular to the gravity field. That's a more complicated approach that results from Earthbound thinking.



sojourner wrote: View Post
I also think trying to use a disc shaped primary hull oriented perpendicular to the direction of travel just doesn't work aesthetically.
I'm visualizing more of a dome shape, actually.
I just had a thought. If we're using a space warp alcubierre drive, do you even get traditional acceleration anyway? Maybe the inertial dampneners aren't even necessary, if the drive is inertial less anyway. Just a thought.

Going to tweak some more now.

-Ricky
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Old June 4 2014, 01:17 AM   #58
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

I've always liked that one... it would be better I think if it had a different style of surface details.

-Ricky
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Old June 4 2014, 01:23 AM   #59
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
It's the wrong generation, and it might not be quite what you mean, but your description keeps making me think of Atolm's Chariot Class, Christopher.
No, that's not it at all.


MadMan1701A wrote: View Post
I just had a thought. If we're using a space warp alcubierre drive, do you even get traditional acceleration anyway? Maybe the inertial dampneners aren't even necessary, if the drive is inertial less anyway. Just a thought.
Well, you'd still need some form of conventional thrust to start yourself in the right direction before engaging warp, and for orbital maneuvering, docking, etc.
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Old June 4 2014, 01:35 AM   #60
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Re: Imagine the Enterprise, over again!

Christopher wrote: View Post
USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
It's the wrong generation, and it might not be quite what you mean, but your description keeps making me think of Atolm's Chariot Class, Christopher.
No, that's not it at all.
Not even if you turn it so that the top of the saucer is forward, and then turn the nacelles 90 degrees?
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