RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,164
Posts: 5,402,992
Members: 24,753
Currently online: 392
Newest member: kev404

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Time’s Orphan
By: Michelle on Aug 30

September-October Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Lee Passes
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 20 2014, 01:52 PM   #16
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Question regarding recent TNG, DS9, VOY novels...

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
I know TV isn't books and the same rules shouldn't necessarily apply, but can you imagine if a TV show skipped time to such an extent?
A better analogy would be movies. Long time jumps are odd in a TV series because it comes out on a weekly basis for much of the year -- although you often see time jumps of several months between seasons, since we live in a time when the conceit of shows taking place in real time is commonplace. But movies tend to come out years apart, and there are often gaps of years between them to reflect that. There's an interval of a decade or more between ST:TMP and TWOK, and an interval of six or more years between TFF and TUC. The four TNG movies have about the same intervals between them in-story that they had in real life, 2-4 years apart. And the second Abrams movie was set about a year after the first. The TNG/DS9/associated novels of the past few years have been following a similar pattern, staying relatively close to real time.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2014, 04:12 PM   #17
tomswift2002
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Question regarding recent TNG, DS9, VOY novels...

ryan123450 wrote: View Post
The real issue to me isn't that Voyager is moving too slow. It's that the Alpha Quadrant series are moving too quickly. I would welcome a return to the slower pace that the original DS9 Relaunch had. Why rush and skip over months and years of story time.

At least it is not as bad as the Enterprise books for the "Romulan War " where it was just pop into one month for a paragraph or two and then jump ahead 10 months.

But I'm still waiting for the conclusion of the Iliana Ghemor arc that was left dangling in "The Soul Key", and now all we are really getting is that 'something interesting happened during that time, but you are not going to get to read it', even though a number of major character decisions occurred during this time.
tomswift2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2014, 01:37 AM   #18
Enterprise1701
Captain
 
Enterprise1701's Avatar
 
Location: Sol III, Sector 001, 2014 C.E.
Re: Question regarding recent TNG, DS9, VOY novels...

Y'know I like how Spock's flashback in Star Trek 2009 was set in 2387, 7 years after Star Trek Nemesis in 2379/2002 in keeping with TNG era convention.
Enterprise1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2014, 01:38 AM   #19
Destructor
Commodore
 
Destructor's Avatar
 
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Re: Question regarding recent TNG, DS9, VOY novels...

Christopher wrote: View Post
lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
I know TV isn't books and the same rules shouldn't necessarily apply, but can you imagine if a TV show skipped time to such an extent?
A better analogy would be movies. Long time jumps are odd in a TV series because it comes out on a weekly basis for much of the year -- although you often see time jumps of several months between seasons, since we live in a time when the conceit of shows taking place in real time is commonplace.
24 had irregular intervals between seasons, sometimes skipping a year, sometimes several years, between 'days'.
Destructor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2014, 06:13 AM   #20
Kirsten Beyer
Writer
 
Kirsten Beyer's Avatar
 
Location: Los Angeles
Re: Question regarding recent TNG, DS9, VOY novels...

Hey folks,

I think, for the most part, the original question has been answered, but just to confirm...

The last time the editors decided to synch up all of the major storylines was the Destiny trilogy. (The lack of Voyager books during that time had nothing at all to do with the merits or success of Golden's first four re-launch books.)The development and release of Destiny caused the delay in the continuing Voyager books post Spirit Walk. Marco and I had already been talking for more than a year when I was told to put everything on hold until Destiny was at a point in terms of outline approval that I could review it and build from there.

As Destiny was begin written, all of the writers who would be carrying the various stories forward post-Destiny worked very closely together, reading each other's manuscripts, fielding questions about characters and arcs and doing everything we could to make the continuity around Destiny as tight as humanly possible.

So yeah...Destiny and its immediate aftermath were all intended to bring everyone into the same time-frame.

After that, everyone was more or less freed to move at the pace their individual stories or other crossover stories developed. I am assuming that, like me, everyone is telling the stories they want to tell when and how they want to tell them.

I can't tell you exactly why the Voyager stories are progressing the way they are except to say that:

1. We said back in Full Circle that this would be a three year mission and I've been conscious as I've been working that three years can go pretty fast in book-time. I'm not intentionally dragging my feet, but with every story I think about how far along in our intended mission we are and how much farther I want to push us at any given time.

2. Perhaps more than the other series, Voyager has required a lot of set-up. Once Full Circle moved us from the end of Spirit Walk through Destiny...which was around three years, I think...my instinct was to slow down. Full Circle had to cover the ground that it did. I could easily have told that story in two or three full books, but that's not how the editors wanted to do it. But once we had a direction and our new cast of characters, the work of building those characters and relationships took precedence in my mind over pushing the story forward at any arbitrary pace. I've written five novels since Full Circle and am writing the sixth as we speak. There has been a great deal of change just in those five books. Only now am I feeling like things are settling down in such a way that moving things along at a slightly brisker pace might be a good idea.

3. Every time I sit down to start a new story, I always look first at where we last ended and ask myself...what happened next? In every case, so far, the answer to that question needed to happen pretty much right away. Full Circle/Unworthy were designed to bring us through our first few days/weeks back in the Delta Quadrant. Children of the Storm overlapped with Unworthy in the Quirinal/Planck/Demeter sections. Eternal Tide picked up shortly after Children. And there were so many immediate fallout issues left after Eternal Tide that there was no way I could skip time. The latest trilogy...Protectors, Acts of Contrition, and Atonement was designed to bring us to the end of the first year of the fleet's mission, so together they cover six to seven months (I think.) For me, that's really picking up the pace in one big story.

I had no idea as I was writing these how far I was really falling behind the other series. The only drawback to this choice has been that because we are so far behind, Voyager isn't really available to participate in some of the newer crossover stuff like The Fall. It's sort of a bummer. But I can live with it for now.

I am contracted now to write the next book after Atonement, which would theoretically begin Year 2 of the fleet's mission. At this point, I can't begin to tell you how much time we're going to cover there or how things will work out. I'm too busy finishing Atonement.

Just know that we are all aware of the time discrepancy now and no one is particularly worried about it. It's out there as something potentially to be considered, but by far the greater concern is always...what needs to happen next for our characters and what is the most exciting way we can tell that story.

For now, it's been to keep the time short and the stories close together. That can always change, but there would have to be a really good reason for it to do so. Because Voyager is in the DQ doing their own thing, and can return to the AQ at any time, I have the unique ability now to connect what I'm doing with what I already know has transpired. It's a rather interesting advantage for me as a writer, and one I would be sacrificing should we push ahead too quickly. I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, but the story I want to tell next would have to require it.

I think the biggest concern is that I would end up in a position where I would be forced to jump ahead and leave readers with a ton of open questions about stuff they might feel they had missed in the interim. But I promise you, as long as I am telling these stories, that would never be my instinct or choice.

Hope that helps.

Best,
Kirsten Beyer
Kirsten Beyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2014, 01:25 PM   #21
ryan123450
Commodore
 
ryan123450's Avatar
 
Location: Woodward, OK
View ryan123450's Twitter Profile
Re: Question regarding recent TNG, DS9, VOY novels...

As always it is great to hear your perspective, Kirsten. I'm glad you never want Voyager to turn out the way Deep Space Nine did, leaving us hanging to this day.
__________________

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit.
ryan123450 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2014, 05:20 PM   #22
Paris
Fleet Captain
 
Paris's Avatar
 
Location: In the future's past
Re: Question regarding recent TNG, DS9, VOY novels...

Thanks for chiming in Kirsten .
__________________
"I don't use plot to serve continuity porn, I use continuity porn to serve plot." - Christopher L. Bennett July 2, 2013
Paris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2014, 05:38 PM   #23
Deranged Nasat
Vice Admiral
 
Deranged Nasat's Avatar
 
Location: I am here. You are here too. Yes.
Re: Question regarding recent TNG, DS9, VOY novels...

Kirsten Beyer wrote: View Post
I am contracted now to write the next book after Atonement
Awesome.
__________________
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.
Deranged Nasat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2014, 06:01 PM   #24
Argrathi
Ensign
 
Re: Question regarding recent TNG, DS9, VOY novels...

Kirsten Beyer wrote: View Post
Hey folks,

I think, for the most part, the original question has been answered, but just to confirm...
It was answered for the most part, but you're response put it all in perspective. Thank you so much for your insight. It's definitely a bummer that VOY wasn't able to be involved in The Fall, but I'm glad that you're able to develop your stories at the pace you feel is necessary. It's funny, one of my favorite parts of your VOY novels is how well we get to know not only Voyager's crew, but the other members of the fleet. Yet, it never occurred to me that such excellent character development wouldn't be possible if large areas of time were skipped. Thank you again for your response (and your novels), Kirsten
Argrathi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2014, 06:15 AM   #25
JD
Admiral
 
JD's Avatar
 
Location: Arizona, USA
Re: Question regarding recent TNG, DS9, VOY novels...

I was thinking about this more after my last post, and the thing that bugs me isn't so much the time skip, like I said before, a lot of non-tie-in books do that, but it's the sudden change. We went from DS9 Relaunch, SCE, ect. and the books leading up to Destiny and immediately after it all taking place fairly close together, to there suddenly being a lot bigger gaps between books. I think if they had always jumped a head a year or so each book from the beginning of post-Nemesis stuff it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
EDIT: I was just looking through the timeline on Memory Beta, and the gaps really aren't as big as I was thinking they were.
2381:
Destiny
Losing the Peace
Some of Watching the Clock
A Singular Destiny
Over a Torrent Sea
2382:
Rough Beasts of Empire
Zero Sum Game
More Watching the Clock
Paths of Disharmony (not sure the exact placement, this one is not on the timeline)
Some of Plagues of Night
2383:
Present day Forgotten History
More Plagues of Night
Raise the Dawn
Brinkmanship
2384:
All of Cold Equations
The Stuff of Dreams
2385:
The Fall
This is the farthset we've made it so far.
__________________
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites

Last edited by JD; May 22 2014 at 06:32 AM.
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2014, 08:22 AM   #26
DGCatAniSiri
Captain
 
Re: Question regarding recent TNG, DS9, VOY novels...

ryan123450 wrote: View Post
The real issue to me isn't that Voyager is moving too slow. It's that the Alpha Quadrant series are moving too quickly. I would welcome a return to the slower pace that the original DS9 Relaunch had. Why rush and skip over months and years of story time.
This is definitely the big problem from where I'm sitting. The issue is in the way that the Alpha Quadrant stories are barreling forward in the timeline - I feel like we've only done these brief 'check-ins' with the characters involved, as they relate to the plot, rather than focusing on the crew, the characters. The senior staff of both the Enterprise and DS9 are at a point that I really am not certain who's who and who goes where. I feel like there's a desperate NEED for there to be stories set pre-The Fall for these characters. The only characters who've stood out on the Enterprise for me are Trys and Dygan, and I know Smrhova (did I spell that right?), but I really can't say I know much about her character. And I'm not even about to attempt to try and list the non-series crew on DS9 who weren't introduced in the ongoing post-finale DS9 novels (so, basically, anyone beyond Ro and Prynn, plus Bashir and Sarina).

It's felt almost like the novels that are set in the Alpha Quadrant have been plot-driven over character driven. And the plot sent events forward by two or three years, while the characters were still set where they were - that was definitely the feeling I had with 'The Poisoned Chalice.' It felt like two weeks or so had passed since 'Fallen Gods' for the characters, not around two years. Frankly, I'd love it if, for at least a couple of years, the novels that come out that are set in the 24th century Alpha Quadrant were set pre-The Fall, just to make it so that we can get to know these characters (and I am STILL desperately desiring an anthology about the DS9 years between 'The Soul Key' and 'Destiny, which could incorporate at least a few of the new faces on DS9').

It's what I've come to really love about the Voyager novels, that so far, they HAVE been slower in the plot shake-ups and heavy on the characters. Things happen, and then the next book picks up on those things and focuses on them. And while I get that it has to do with the fact that the Voyager novels have only one writer while the others have been various others, I still think it's something that they could pick up on in some ways. If nothing else, I'm game for like loose duologies written by the same author in each series, to introduce plot points and let them grow and evolve for two books before reaching a resolution. Just something to allow more of a character-based focus, instead of a plot-based one.
DGCatAniSiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23 2014, 06:18 AM   #27
Destructor
Commodore
 
Destructor's Avatar
 
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Re: Question regarding recent TNG, DS9, VOY novels...

ryan123450 wrote: View Post
As always it is great to hear your perspective, Kirsten. I'm glad you never want Voyager to turn out the way Deep Space Nine did, leaving us hanging to this day.
Agreed! Thanks Kirsten.
Destructor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23 2014, 06:59 AM   #28
Enterprise1701
Captain
 
Enterprise1701's Avatar
 
Location: Sol III, Sector 001, 2014 C.E.
Re: Question regarding recent TNG, DS9, VOY novels...

JD wrote: View Post
EDIT: I was just looking through the timeline on Memory Beta, and the gaps really aren't as big as I was thinking they were.
You've forgotten to list all the VOY novels, Synthesis, Seize the Fire, Fallen Gods, Indistinguishable From Magic, and Absent Enemies. Also, The Light Fantastic, The Collectors, Disavowed, Lust's Latinum Lost (and Found), The Missing, and Armageddon's Arrow can probably be reasonably predicted in the timeline.
Enterprise1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23 2014, 09:24 AM   #29
Jarvisimo
Commander
 
Jarvisimo's Avatar
 
Re: Question regarding recent TNG, DS9, VOY novels...

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
ryan123450 wrote: View Post
The real issue to me isn't that Voyager is moving too slow. It's that the Alpha Quadrant series are moving too quickly. I would welcome a return to the slower pace that the original DS9 Relaunch had. Why rush and skip over months and years of story time.
This is definitely the big problem from where I'm sitting. The issue is in the way that the Alpha Quadrant stories are barreling forward in the timeline - I feel like we've only done these brief 'check-ins' with the characters involved, as they relate to the plot, rather than focusing on the crew, the characters. The senior staff of both the Enterprise and DS9 are at a point that I really am not certain who's who and who goes where. I feel like there's a desperate NEED for there to be stories set pre-The Fall for these characters. The only characters who've stood out on the Enterprise for me are Trys and Dygan, and I know Smrhova (did I spell that right?), but I really can't say I know much about her character. And I'm not even about to attempt to try and list the non-series crew on DS9 who weren't introduced in the ongoing post-finale DS9 novels (so, basically, anyone beyond Ro and Prynn, plus Bashir and Sarina).

It's felt almost like the novels that are set in the Alpha Quadrant have been plot-driven over character driven. And the plot sent events forward by two or three years, while the characters were still set where they were - that was definitely the feeling I had with 'The Poisoned Chalice.' It felt like two weeks or so had passed since 'Fallen Gods' for the characters, not around two years. Frankly, I'd love it if, for at least a couple of years, the novels that come out that are set in the 24th century Alpha Quadrant were set pre-The Fall, just to make it so that we can get to know these characters (and I am STILL desperately desiring an anthology about the DS9 years between 'The Soul Key' and 'Destiny, which could incorporate at least a few of the new faces on DS9').

It's what I've come to really love about the Voyager novels, that so far, they HAVE been slower in the plot shake-ups and heavy on the characters. Things happen, and then the next book picks up on those things and focuses on them. And while I get that it has to do with the fact that the Voyager novels have only one writer while the others have been various others, I still think it's something that they could pick up on in some ways. If nothing else, I'm game for like loose duologies written by the same author in each series, to introduce plot points and let them grow and evolve for two books before reaching a resolution. Just something to allow more of a character-based focus, instead of a plot-based one.
Yah, I completely agree with the sentiment, although I think going back and filling in the gaps of anything but DS9 seems silly, since - according to what has been published in the other series - nothing really happened to the Titan & TNG characters that really changed them (although with Titan it could be major characterisation could be added to the characters not focused on in 'The Poisoned Chalice'). But damn, maybe slowing down and focusing on the characters would be good. Yet you can still have excellent character pieces focused on characters we don't really check in with very often and which are far chronologically since a prior novel - Brinkmanship, The Crimson Shadow - and these feel weighty and important and right, irrespective of how long it's been since we saw Garak or Beverly's POV.

But I do miss the slow narrative of the DS9 Relaunch in DS9 - and Kirsten really is the only person pursuing that kind of 'what happens next after the last story' narrative. Thank you very much, your writing is wonderful for this focus. these characters feel like they are growing, breathing, changing. Very lovely.
__________________
Speculum
Jarvisimo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23 2014, 12:19 PM   #30
DGCatAniSiri
Captain
 
Re: Question regarding recent TNG, DS9, VOY novels...

Jarvisimo wrote: View Post
DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
ryan123450 wrote: View Post
The real issue to me isn't that Voyager is moving too slow. It's that the Alpha Quadrant series are moving too quickly. I would welcome a return to the slower pace that the original DS9 Relaunch had. Why rush and skip over months and years of story time.
This is definitely the big problem from where I'm sitting. The issue is in the way that the Alpha Quadrant stories are barreling forward in the timeline - I feel like we've only done these brief 'check-ins' with the characters involved, as they relate to the plot, rather than focusing on the crew, the characters. The senior staff of both the Enterprise and DS9 are at a point that I really am not certain who's who and who goes where. I feel like there's a desperate NEED for there to be stories set pre-The Fall for these characters. The only characters who've stood out on the Enterprise for me are Trys and Dygan, and I know Smrhova (did I spell that right?), but I really can't say I know much about her character. And I'm not even about to attempt to try and list the non-series crew on DS9 who weren't introduced in the ongoing post-finale DS9 novels (so, basically, anyone beyond Ro and Prynn, plus Bashir and Sarina).

It's felt almost like the novels that are set in the Alpha Quadrant have been plot-driven over character driven. And the plot sent events forward by two or three years, while the characters were still set where they were - that was definitely the feeling I had with 'The Poisoned Chalice.' It felt like two weeks or so had passed since 'Fallen Gods' for the characters, not around two years. Frankly, I'd love it if, for at least a couple of years, the novels that come out that are set in the 24th century Alpha Quadrant were set pre-The Fall, just to make it so that we can get to know these characters (and I am STILL desperately desiring an anthology about the DS9 years between 'The Soul Key' and 'Destiny, which could incorporate at least a few of the new faces on DS9').

It's what I've come to really love about the Voyager novels, that so far, they HAVE been slower in the plot shake-ups and heavy on the characters. Things happen, and then the next book picks up on those things and focuses on them. And while I get that it has to do with the fact that the Voyager novels have only one writer while the others have been various others, I still think it's something that they could pick up on in some ways. If nothing else, I'm game for like loose duologies written by the same author in each series, to introduce plot points and let them grow and evolve for two books before reaching a resolution. Just something to allow more of a character-based focus, instead of a plot-based one.
Yah, I completely agree with the sentiment, although I think going back and filling in the gaps of anything but DS9 seems silly, since - according to what has been published in the other series - nothing really happened to the Titan & TNG characters that really changed them (although with Titan it could be major characterisation could be added to the characters not focused on in 'The Poisoned Chalice'). But damn, maybe slowing down and focusing on the characters would be good. Yet you can still have excellent character pieces focused on characters we don't really check in with very often and which are far chronologically since a prior novel - Brinkmanship, The Crimson Shadow - and these feel weighty and important and right, irrespective of how long it's been since we saw Garak or Beverly's POV.

But I do miss the slow narrative of the DS9 Relaunch in DS9 - and Kirsten really is the only person pursuing that kind of 'what happens next after the last story' narrative. Thank you very much, your writing is wonderful for this focus. these characters feel like they are growing, breathing, changing. Very lovely.
I'm not particularly asking for things to change the characters. I want to just be able to say something like 'this is [character], and these are characteristics I associate with them: [x, y, and z]' in regards to the current cast of characters who aren't from the shows. At the moment, the current roster on the Enterprise and DS9 are more just names to me, not characters.

But even then, since the crews' recent appearances have been more plot-focused over the focus on the characters, I think there is room to increase the characterization of both the new and old crew, because they haven't been in a position to express any changes. They've been reacting to the events that are happening around them, and I don't expect any of the characters to go through something that utterly changes the core of the characters. But I would like to see, say, the Enterprise-E crew dealing with the emotional consequences from the events that took place in the Cold Equations trilogy. There were bits and pieces of what took place in each previous book in the trilogy, but The Fall didn't really give any attention to that fallout for the characters because of its focus on telling the tale it was paying attention to. So there's room to interpret the emotional journeys of the familiar characters while growing the new characters at the same time in material set between earlier stories and The Fall.

No matter what, though, I would willingly take an Enterprise mission-of-the-week novel that gets the novel-exclusive characters a chance to really shine over some grand new 'event' storyline right now.
DGCatAniSiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:25 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.