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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 27 2014, 06:57 PM   #1
JesterFace
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First Contact and the Borg attack

Have you ever wondered why did the Borg travel to Earth orbit to fight when moving into the past, if they had just jumped into 2063 somewhere else Enterprise wouldn't have followed them and prevent their plan to assimilate Earth in the past.

It would have made a pretty boring movie but still...
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Old June 27 2014, 07:29 PM   #2
BillJ
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Re: First Contact and the Borg attack

You really have to fudge that one. In my mind, the Borg transwarp network didn't yet exist in the 2060's.
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Old June 28 2014, 02:24 AM   #3
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Re: First Contact and the Borg attack

BillJ wrote: View Post
You really have to fudge that one. In my mind, the Borg transwarp network didn't yet exist in the 2060's.
That would definitely prevent the Borg from simply sending a sphere into the past in Borg space and telling those Borg to head toward Earth.

As for the Borg cube that was sent to Earth in FC, I would suppose that it is some kind of technical limitation. Perhaps the Borg only have the ability to send a small object into the past and not a giant cube. The sphere itself, after exiting the temporal vortex, was basically defenseless. (Plus, the sphere had firepower comparable to that of an average 20th century soldier, so that might also have been a problem.)

So let's say that the Borg sphere travels back in time just outside 2373 Federation space and then starts to head toward Earth. Earth itself might not have been able to pose a threat at the time, but the Vulcans, Andorians, Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, Breen, Sheliak, Tamarians, Ferengi, etc. might have posed a sufficient threat to a weakened sphere to deter the Borg from traveling back in time further away from the Sol system.

Going further back in time, and the Borg might chance an encounter with the old mega-civilizations like the T'kon, Iconians, etc.

At least, that's my attempt to fudge it.
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Old June 28 2014, 10:19 AM   #4
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Re: First Contact and the Borg attack

To me, it seemed as if the Borg's decision to time travel was a desperate, spur-of-the-moment decision made after it became apparent they were going to lose the Battle of Sector 001. I don't think there was enough time for the Borg to think of a more involved strategy and they may have also just been hell-bent on assimilating Earth (their original reason for going to Sector 001).
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Old June 28 2014, 11:25 AM   #5
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Re: First Contact and the Borg attack

I agree time travel probably wasn't the original plan. But the fact that it was possible does make one wonder... All the Borg really had to do was send 1 sphere back in time on the borg homeworld, transmit a message including all the accumulated knowledge of the Collective (including how to achieve transwarp) and tell them who their most hated enemies would be and which order to strike them in in order to guarantee minimum resistance. Hell, even when they failed they could just keep doing it as long as they held their own space giving them endless opportunities to fix their mistakes.
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Old June 28 2014, 11:53 PM   #6
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Re: First Contact and the Borg attack

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
To me, it seemed as if the Borg's decision to time travel was a desperate, spur-of-the-moment decision made after it became apparent they were going to lose the Battle of Sector 001.
My thought as well. The time travel device they used might have been newly acquired technology that the Borg didn't entirely understand and so the queen kept it as "option number two."

The device might have been unique, one of a kind, which is why we never see them use it again.

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Old June 29 2014, 02:30 AM   #7
austen_pierce
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Re: First Contact and the Borg attack

BillJ wrote: View Post
You really have to fudge that one. In my mind, the Borg transwarp network didn't yet exist in the 2060's.
I hadn't made the transwarp connection, but I always dissociate time travel from spacial travel. Movement in time has always resulted in arriving at the same place, just at another point in time. Have we ever seen time travel and spacial travel wrapped into one device?

Yes... The Guardian of Forever comes to mind. Good thing the Borg hadn't assimilated THAT
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Old June 29 2014, 10:32 AM   #8
grendelsbayne
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Re: First Contact and the Borg attack

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
You really have to fudge that one. In my mind, the Borg transwarp network didn't yet exist in the 2060's.
I hadn't made the transwarp connection, but I always dissociate time travel from spacial travel. Movement in time has always resulted in arriving at the same place, just at another point in time. Have we ever seen time travel and spacial travel wrapped into one device?

Yes... The Guardian of Forever comes to mind. Good thing the Borg hadn't assimilated THAT
Technically, the time travel you're describing is both temporal and spatial. Planets are constantly moving through space, so when someone uses time travel to go from 24th century earth to 20th century earth, they have, in fact, arrived at a completely different place from where they left. It's just always conveniently so that their target also happens to be present at both places and times.

I suppose the technobabble solution to this would involve some sort of anchoring effect where using a time travel device inside a large system of stars or planets causes you to follow the gravitational pull of that system rather than just staying put in a single point in space.
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Old June 29 2014, 11:24 AM   #9
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Re: First Contact and the Borg attack

I don't think their plan was to travel back in time, why just send a Sphere when a Cube could assimilate Earth much faster.

I always saw their plan being to invade and target Earth with the Cube, as they had done previously, but when Starfleet proved to offer greater resistance than they'd anticipated then the Borg decided to enable a contingency plan, sending the Sphere back to target Earth in the past.
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Old June 29 2014, 11:57 AM   #10
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Re: First Contact and the Borg attack

Exactly. The Borg favor efficiency, so they only sent one cube, and didn't expect the resistance. And they would have succeeded with that had it not been for Picard's link to the collective. Picard fucked up their plans by recognizing the weak spots of the cube, and then they went ahead with plan B.
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Old June 29 2014, 01:44 PM   #11
austen_pierce
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Re: First Contact and the Borg attack

grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
You really have to fudge that one. In my mind, the Borg transwarp network didn't yet exist in the 2060's.
I hadn't made the transwarp connection, but I always dissociate time travel from spacial travel. Movement in time has always resulted in arriving at the same place, just at another point in time. Have we ever seen time travel and spacial travel wrapped into one device?

Yes... The Guardian of Forever comes to mind. Good thing the Borg hadn't assimilated THAT
Technically, the time travel you're describing is both temporal and spatial. Planets are constantly moving through space, so when someone uses time travel to go from 24th century earth to 20th century earth, they have, in fact, arrived at a completely different place from where they left. It's just always conveniently so that their target also happens to be present at both places and times.

I suppose the technobabble solution to this would involve some sort of anchoring effect where using a time travel device inside a large system of stars or planets causes you to follow the gravitational pull of that system rather than just staying put in a single point in space.
Actually, I had thought of that...planets, solar systems, heck even the entire galaxy always in a state of spatial motion. Just didn't want to wrap around that particular axle. But you are correct, in that some adjustment would have to be made.

Kinda takes the fun out of the 'slingshot around the sun' approach to time travel. 'Now where did that silly star go?
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Old June 29 2014, 02:01 PM   #12
JarodRussell
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Re: First Contact and the Borg attack

Slingshot around the sun makes the most sense in that regard. You are always anchored to the gravity center of the star while traveling through time.
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Old June 29 2014, 04:46 PM   #13
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Re: First Contact and the Borg attack

The only question I have is: "Why did First Contact blow its wad in the first ten minutes with a two minute space battle?"
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Old June 29 2014, 07:37 PM   #14
Merry Christmas
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Re: First Contact and the Borg attack

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
The Guardian of Forever comes to mind. Good thing the Borg hadn't assimilated THAT
For all we know, the Guardian would have destroyed the Borg.

The Enterprise was being buffeted in orbit by fluctuation in time, if the Guardian could have selectively targeted those it (he?) could have casually torn a massive fleet of cubes apart.



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Old June 29 2014, 08:00 PM   #15
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Re: First Contact and the Borg attack

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
To me, it seemed as if the Borg's decision to time travel was a desperate, spur-of-the-moment decision made after it became apparent they were going to lose the Battle of Sector 001. I don't think there was enough time for the Borg to think of a more involved strategy and they may have also just been hell-bent on assimilating Earth (their original reason for going to Sector 001).
Bjut that makes for an absolutely moronic backup plan. Going back and assimilating Earth BEFORE they have any useful technology is complete waste of time, especially if they first go out of their way to murder the only people on the entire planet who know anything about warp drive.

Much more to the point: if ASSIMILATING Earth was the goal, why the hell did they open fire on Cochrane's missile complex? Why not send a couple of Borg down to the surface to ASSIMILATE Cochrane's team and then use the missile complex as a base to launch an invasion of the rest of the planet? For that matter, why devote all of your attention to trying to assimilate the Enterprise just so you can shoot down Cochrane's ship, when you could just as well start beaming your drones down to San Franisco, using the ship's weapons as fire support for the start of the invasion?


I'm beginning to wonder if maybe it involves the origin of the Borg Queen? This entire plan might actually have been HER idea for some agenda she hasn't shared with anyone? Maybe she's secretly trying to sabotage the Borg by preventing them from acquiring what she believes would be their most valuable species yet?
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