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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 4 2014, 11:08 AM   #196
F. King Daniel
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
If we assume the Enterprise has less than 72 tubes, I wonder how many torpedoes can be loaded into each launch tube?
I suggested a few pages ago that 9 tubes each side, 18 in all, could hold 4 torpedoes each, giving 72.

The screencap posted only a page or two ago which shows Vengeance's scan of the Enterprise shows maybe 18 each side, or 2 torpedoes each.
I think there are more than 18. Owing to the size of the graphic and how close the launchers are to each other, a bunch of them overlap as they blip onto the screen.
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Old June 4 2014, 11:51 AM   #197
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

One thing to consider: the Vengeance is similar to the Enterprise in its basic configuration. In order to design her, Khan probably studied existing Federation designs, probably in much greater detail than his prime counterpart. It stands to reason that he was familiar with the Enterprise.
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Old June 4 2014, 04:52 PM   #198
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I think there are more than 18. Owing to the size of the graphic and how close the launchers are to each other, a bunch of them overlap as they blip onto the screen.
Let's say there are 24 than on each side.

24 + 24 + 2 + 1 = 51

So the Enterprise, a ship not built for war has 51 Torpedo launchers... That's almost twice as many torpedo launchers as the freaking Scimitar. Kind of hard to paint the Vengeance as an evil ship when the Enterprise has more torpedo launchers than all of the previous original Enterprise ships combined.

What was the point? The ship already has a torpedo launcher on the neck and two in the rear and we've seen her fire torpedoes in quick succession. Why can't we simply use what the Enterprise has instead of adding all this other stuff just for the sake of it?
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Old June 4 2014, 05:01 PM   #199
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

Jeyl wrote: View Post
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General Order 24.

It is obvious that the TOS version of the ship carried quite a bit of firepower and wasn't a war ship.

Not really seeing an issue with the number of torpedo launchers.
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Old June 4 2014, 05:30 PM   #200
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

So did the TNG Enterprise - take a look at all the firepower it unloads in "Best of Both Worlds", yet they're a ship of peaceful exploration in the most PC Trek of them all.
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Old June 4 2014, 05:35 PM   #201
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

For what it's worth, those tubes could also be used to launch probes and sensors for exploratory and scientific purposes. Multitasking in a "swords or plowshares" kind of way.
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Old June 4 2014, 05:37 PM   #202
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

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For what it's worth, those tubes could also be used to launch probes and sensors for exploratory and scientific purposes. Multitasking in a "swords or plowshares" kind of way.
Absolutely. Plus communications relays since the Enterprise is headed for the frontier.
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Old June 4 2014, 06:10 PM   #203
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

BillJ wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
For what it's worth, those tubes could also be used to launch probes and sensors for exploratory and scientific purposes. Multitasking in a "swords or plowshares" kind of way.
Absolutely. Plus communications relays since the Enterprise is headed for the frontier.
For those times when Enterprise needs to exhaust her supply of probes all at once.
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Old June 4 2014, 07:47 PM   #204
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
One thing to consider: the Vengeance is similar to the Enterprise in its basic configuration.
Other than the fact that they both have similar shapes and use engine nacelles, they're actually NOTHING alike. If you go by the concept art for the movie, their weapon systems aren't even in the same place.

Apart from basic starship design theory and the fundamentals of the technology, there's practically nothing Khan would need that would require him to specifically study any one Federation design other than the Vengeance's original baseline (which, if you go by the comics, was already taking shape when he was thawed).
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Old June 4 2014, 07:59 PM   #205
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
For what it's worth, those tubes could also be used to launch probes and sensors for exploratory and scientific purposes. Multitasking in a "swords or plowshares" kind of way.
Absolutely. Plus communications relays since the Enterprise is headed for the frontier.
For those times when Enterprise needs to exhaust her supply of probes all at once.
Have you considered the possibility that the Enterprise might want to deploy a constellation of probes to map the entire surface of a planet, and do so while still having several photon torpedoes available in case those probes should suddenly discover a large Klingon battlecruiser hiding in a crater, ready to pounce?

The whole point of having multiple launch tubes is the need to launch multiple devices at once. The whole point of having them be RELOADABLE is so that you can choose which devices you launch, and in which order, and at what time. Loading and unloading may be fairly easy to do, but I wouldn't be surprised if the ship doesn't have a "standard cruise" package that includes, say, 12 torpedoes, 12 probes, 6 ECM decoys, 3 ion pods on retractable tethers and 3 recorder markers ready to launch, all of these on hot standby. Upgrading to yellow alert might mean replacing some of the probes with torpedoes and/or ECM decoys, while at full red alert they pull all of the probes and add another 12 torpedoes.
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Old June 4 2014, 09:13 PM   #206
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

Franklin wrote: View Post
For what it's worth, those tubes could also be used to launch probes and sensors for exploratory and scientific purposes. Multitasking in a "swords or plowshares" kind of way.
Given the sort of segmented look of the inside of it, they could expand or contract to load carious objects into them rather easily.

We've seen the TOS Enterprise deploy a large number of satellites into orbit (once TOS-R retconned the existance of an underside bay) so I could see the tubes on the NuPrise being used for exactly the same purpose in that situation.
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Old June 5 2014, 01:58 PM   #207
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

BillJ wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
...
General Order 24.

It is obvious that the TOS version of the ship carried quite a bit of firepower and wasn't a war ship.

Not really seeing an issue with the number of torpedo launchers.
Exactly, so what's the point of the Vengeance? The only real difference between that ship and the Enterprise is that it's darker, a bit bigger, doesn't need that much of a crew and can move faster. How come when you have a starship that's more efficient in things that aren't really that combat related should automatically be looked at as a bad thing?
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Old June 5 2014, 02:02 PM   #208
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
So did the TNG Enterprise - take a look at all the firepower it unloads in "Best of Both Worlds", yet they're a ship of peaceful exploration in the most PC Trek of them all.
Yeah, and it did all that with about a dozen phaser arrays and two torpedo launchers (which it only used one). Just because you don't have that many launchers doesn't mean you can't be efficient at combat. So why add more launchers when clearly one is enough?
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Old June 5 2014, 05:24 PM   #209
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

The Enterprise is a publically known vessel controlled by Starfleet whose missions are widely known.

Vengeance is unmarked, unregistered and unknown to the majority of the Federation, it's mission can be carried out in secret, and can be plausibly denied by Starfleet.

It also curb stomped the Enterprise with it's firepower almost instantly, she had her shields up despite being at warp, seemingly Vengeance's weaponry is vastly more powerful.

She is also considerably faster, more robust and may well not fully show up on sensors. Her warp wake does, setting up proximity alarms twice, but we have no idea (when fully active) if she can be locked onto.

I'd bet her shields are also a lot harder to punch through, and any attacking ship would be pulverised by it's weapons before making much of an attempt.

Watch what it did to the Federations former top ship, and tell me what's different about it. Enterprise could not carry out half the missions Vengeance could.
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Old June 6 2014, 10:01 AM   #210
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Exactly, so what's the point of the Vengeance? The only real difference between that ship and the Enterprise is that it's darker, a bit bigger, doesn't need that much of a crew and can move faster.
That's quite a bit of an advantage, really. Plus, she beats the crap out of the Enterprise so much, I wonder if she could beat the Narada. She's armed to the teeth, too.
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