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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old May 16 2014, 01:38 AM   #31
trevanian
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Re: Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

mos6507 wrote: View Post
Sulu managed to make the Excelsior seem hip in Trek VI, but I don't think it ever deserved to have the Enteprise label on it (The -B in generations). It just doesn't have the classic lines, but then again, neither does the -D (IMHO) which is too much of a manta-ray sort of thing.

The Enterprise coming back in the same shape is a resurrection of sorts, which matches Spock coming back basically as-is in Trek IV. It wouldn't have quite the same symmetry had the ship not at least looked the same on the outside, although at the time I was quite thrilled with the flashy touch-panel interior (which I guess was just a redressed Excelsior set).
No the Excelsior set was just an awful kludge, a one-off I think. The touch stuff on that crazy white TVH bridge was Okuda (his first trek show.)
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Old May 16 2014, 02:25 AM   #32
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Re: Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

Yeah, I prefer the ST:VI Excelsior bridge. The ST:III bridge just looked... glossy and wide. Most of the space looked wasteful, IMO.
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Old May 16 2014, 03:07 AM   #33
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Re: Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
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wonder what the reaction wouldve been had they used the Ent D for the Ent A...
Probably something along the lines of "What the hell is this?" since Star Trek IV came out in 1986, and TNG came out in 1987.
I think what he meant to say was "What if there was a new model for the Enterprise-A at the end of STIV, and then it was used as the new ship for TNG the next year" (i.e. TNG would be about the crew of the Ent-A, although the filming model itself would have been the same as the D.) At least I think that's what he meant; I could be completely wrong.
SNIP!

No, I was referring to a ship design set in the 23rd century, not the 24th century. I was not referring to TNG, so I do apologize if I wasn't clear. Anyway, my point was that I was wondering why the studios didn't use, an Excelsior-class, a modification of an existing class (like a post-refit Constitution-class, with a new nacelle design) or simply create a brand new class of starship for that era, for the next set of films. Don't get me wrong: I like Constitution-class design, but I wanted to see something new commanded by Kirk at the end of TVH. That's all...
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Old May 16 2014, 05:08 AM   #34
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Re: Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Yeah, I prefer the ST:VI Excelsior bridge. The ST:III bridge just looked... glossy and wide. Most of the space looked wasteful, IMO.
Plus I'm pretty sure it has the cheap 2nd season Buck Rogers look of it all being on a single level. THE SEARCHER on BUCK really looked almost exactly like what you get shooting in somebody's garage. Platforming or elevating a section does wonders for this kind of thing (check out RED OCTOBER and you'll see it is like a boxing ring where the periscope is located.)
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Old May 16 2014, 05:13 AM   #35
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Re: Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

trevanian wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Yeah, I prefer the ST:VI Excelsior bridge. The ST:III bridge just looked... glossy and wide. Most of the space looked wasteful, IMO.
Plus I'm pretty sure it has the cheap 2nd season Buck Rogers look of it all being on a single level. THE SEARCHER on BUCK really looked almost exactly like what you get shooting in somebody's garage. Platforming or elevating a section does wonders for this kind of thing (check out RED OCTOBER and you'll see it is like a boxing ring where the periscope is located.)
That can make a difference, I agree. It really does feel like "we set this up in our garage," and that's no slight against Michael Okuda. For me, it just didn't work onscreen. Everything looked too big for a ship of that size. Granted, it was a large ship, but the ST:VI bridge just feels more tactical, I guess.
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Old May 16 2014, 05:32 AM   #36
trevanian
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Re: Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

J. Allen wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Yeah, I prefer the ST:VI Excelsior bridge. The ST:III bridge just looked... glossy and wide. Most of the space looked wasteful, IMO.
Plus I'm pretty sure it has the cheap 2nd season Buck Rogers look of it all being on a single level. THE SEARCHER on BUCK really looked almost exactly like what you get shooting in somebody's garage. Platforming or elevating a section does wonders for this kind of thing (check out RED OCTOBER and you'll see it is like a boxing ring where the periscope is located.)
That can make a difference, I agree. It really does feel like "we set this up in our garage," and that's no slight against Michael Okuda. For me, it just didn't work onscreen. Everything looked too big for a ship of that size. Granted, it was a large ship, but the ST:VI bridge just feels more tactical, I guess.
I may have written it wrong; Okuda did the TVH E-a bridge graphics and the graphics for the BoP, he wasn't on SFS (that was a guy who helped on the original GALACTICA, i think, and NOT a good choice coming on the heels of Joe Jennings. I think the main art directors on the Nimoy films are EXTREMELY weak links, and the fact they pretty much let ILM design stuff WAY outside their purview like tricorders is a pretty good indicator of same.
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Old May 16 2014, 06:04 AM   #37
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Re: Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

Ah, my mistake then. Still, I think most things looked really good in III, it's just the bridge felt off. Maybe if it was smaller, maybe if it had a dais, or something.
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Old May 16 2014, 06:29 AM   #38
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Re: Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

The Excelsior bridge in SFS was terrible. It looked like a garage version of the TOS bridge with the seats from the shuttle on Space Academy wheeled in to make it look more 'spacey'. I look at it as a bridge module meant exclusively for testing, and that it will get replaced if/when the testing ends and the ship receives a commission for regular service.
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Old May 16 2014, 06:46 AM   #39
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Re: Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

dswynne1 wrote: View Post
No, I was referring to a ship design set in the 23rd century, not the 24th century. I was not referring to TNG, so I do apologize if I wasn't clear. Anyway, my point was that I was wondering why the studios didn't use, an Excelsior-class, a modification of an existing class (like a post-refit Constitution-class, with a new nacelle design) or simply create a brand new class of starship for that era, for the next set of films. Don't get me wrong: I like Constitution-class design, but I wanted to see something new commanded by Kirk at the end of TVH. That's all...
Er, what? The post you attributed to me was in response to Khan 2.0, not you.

mos6507 wrote: View Post
The Enterprise coming back in the same shape is a resurrection of sorts, which matches Spock coming back basically as-is in Trek IV. It wouldn't have quite the same symmetry had the ship not at least looked the same on the outside, although at the time I was quite thrilled with the flashy touch-panel interior (which I guess was just a redressed Excelsior set).
Interesting analogy; I never thought of that before.
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Old May 16 2014, 08:22 AM   #40
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Re: Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

I loved the STIII Excelsior bridge. It seemed huge, and the whole "Wow, touchscreen WALLS" floored Young Daniel. When STV came along, I thought "Cool, they've upgraded the Enterprise with the futuristic Excelsior tech"

In VI, however, the set looked tiny (is it really the V set? In V the bridge looked much more spacious) and was very obviously a slightly redressed Enterprise.
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Old May 16 2014, 10:28 AM   #41
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Re: Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Khan 2.0 wrote: View Post
wonder what the reaction wouldve been had they used the Ent D for the Ent A...
Probably something along the lines of "What the hell is this?" since Star Trek IV came out in 1986, and TNG came out in 1987.
I think what he meant to say was "What if there was a new model for the Enterprise-A at the end of STIV, and then it was used as the new ship for TNG the next year" (i.e. TNG would be about the crew of the Ent-A, although the filming model itself would have been the same as the D.) At least I think that's what he meant; I could be completely wrong. But with that scenario, basically that would have meant that TNG would have taken place right after STIV, and not in the 24th century 75 years later. The TOS cast could have been gradually replaced by the new cast, and the use of the movie ship models would have been more contemporary. Or they could have set the show five or so years later, with the TOS crew already gone by that point, so the Ent-A would have already had some spacetime logged, have uniform and prop changes made, etc. Also, I don't think that if this scenario actually happened, that the ship would look anything like the D, as it would not have been designed by Andrew Probert but more likely by someone like Bill George.
no i just meant what if the A had been a radical departure from what audiences were used to. But your theory is an interesting one
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Old May 16 2014, 01:43 PM   #42
Lance
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Re: Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

FormerLurker wrote: View Post
The Excelsior bridge in SFS was terrible. It looked like a garage version of the TOS bridge with the seats from the shuttle on Space Academy wheeled in to make it look more 'spacey'. I look at it as a bridge module meant exclusively for testing, and that it will get replaced if/when the testing ends and the ship receives a commission for regular service.
I've gotta agree. It looks particularly bad because it's so bare. No steps, no interesting angles, all one colour, no sense of depth. It's literally a room with just a couple of consoles and a few chairs. Yeah, it's probably best to see it as some kind of temporary test bridge module that gets unplugged and replaced when the ship goes into regular service.
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Old May 16 2014, 03:21 PM   #43
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Re: Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

^ And why did they have those huge backlit signs next to the turbolift that indicated whatever alert the ship was on? Couldn't they just use lighting for that, like every other ship does?
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Old May 16 2014, 04:05 PM   #44
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Re: Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

The D always looked like a 24th Century luxury liner/oil tanker hybrid to me so I initially preferred the E. Now? Pretty much hate 'em both.
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Old May 16 2014, 04:16 PM   #45
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Re: Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

I can understand keeping that expensive filming model for the Enterprise-A, but I do wish they had made some small changes externally instead of just altering the NCC number. The Refit was just that- taking old hardware and updating it to newer technologies, the new ship should have taken that one step further since they were starting from a blank slate.
I did think it was a nice touch however when they stepped on the shiny new bridge and you heard a lot of the TOS Bridge equipment sounds once again.
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