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Old June 23 2015, 02:03 PM   #1
calamity_si
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TOS Dreadnought USS Victory

I always liked the 3-nacelled Franz Joseph original but I could definitely see room for improvement on it. So, here's my version.






Credit goes to Spockboy for all Sepia Trek related images
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Old June 23 2015, 02:52 PM   #2
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Re: TOS Dreadnought USS Victory

Is the third nacelle just for look or is there a practical purpose?
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Old June 23 2015, 03:20 PM   #3
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Re: TOS Dreadnought USS Victory

I like it very much, except for the cone shaped front on the secondary hull supporting the deflector dish.
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Old June 23 2015, 03:28 PM   #4
137th Gebirg
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Re: TOS Dreadnought USS Victory

Disco wrote: View Post
Is the third nacelle just for look or is there a practical purpose?
It's based on the original Franz Joseph design from the 70's, the Federation-Class Dreadnaught, which had a third engine. IIRC, the idea was that adding additional engines to the system would increase the ability for the ship to warp space around it, making it "move faster" than double-engine ships. Roddenberry decanonized it when he put out his "laws of starship design", one of which mentioned that starships may only have engines "in pairs", and in full view of each other, unobstructed by other hull structures. I'm paraphrasing, but that's the general gist. FJ's Saladin-Class Destroyer and Hermes-Class Scout suffered a similar apocryphal fate at the hands of Roddenberry's infamous memo typewriter.

As for later TNG-based designs that seem to violate the "in pairs" rule, like the "All Good Things" Enterprise-D and the "Best of Both Worlds" Niagara and Freedom, it has been postulated that all Galaxy-style "star drive" engines have twin warp coils in them. This is evidenced by two distinct red lights in the Bussard collector in the front of each nacelle. So, ships like the regular TNG Enterprise-D actually have the equivalent of 4 TOS-era nacelles and the "All Good Things" version technically had 6, not 3.

The Hutzel kitbash from DS9 has Excelsior-style engines and could be argued that it has upgraded nacelles with twin coils as well in the post-transwarp era.

Explaining away the single- and three-engine ships in the new JJ Abrams movies are easier:
A) They are all likely operating under different technical and physical principals than their Prime-Universe counterparts as evidenced by their beer-brewery engine room and massive spherical warp reactor (and a larger amount of pulse-phaser vs. beam-phaser weapons),
B) They are considerably bigger than their Prime-Universe counterparts and have plenty of room for twin coils, and most importantly...
C) They don't give 2 rat-turds in a rain barrel about Roddenberry's bullshit laws of starship design.

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Old June 23 2015, 03:36 PM   #5
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Re: TOS Dreadnought USS Victory

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Roddenberry decanonized it when he put out his "laws of starship design", one of which mentioned that starships may only have engines "in pairs", and in full view of each other, unobstructed by other hull structures. I'm paraphrasing, but that's the general gist. FJ's Saladin-Class Destroyer and Hermes-Class Scout suffered a similar apocryphal fate at the hands of Roddenberry's infamous memo typewriter.
Undercut by 2009's Kelvin !

And possibly by the Armstrong a little later ?
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Old June 23 2015, 03:40 PM   #6
137th Gebirg
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Re: TOS Dreadnought USS Victory

^^^ I added some extra stuff on my post addressing that.

And, yes, good design BTW. Although I, too, am not sure I like the cone on the secondary hull either. But hey, it's your design, Calamity. Nice work either way.
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Old June 23 2015, 04:45 PM   #7
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Re: TOS Dreadnought USS Victory

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Old June 23 2015, 05:23 PM   #8
calamity_si
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Re: TOS Dreadnought USS Victory

Cheers guys. Just to address the issue of the nose cone section; I simply thought that it looked cooler than the standard dreadnought. I certainly was never a fan of the shuttlebay being situated above the main deflector dish and I wanted my variant to be a bit sleeker. Kinda like a forerunner to the Excelsior class.
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Old June 23 2015, 06:22 PM   #9
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Re: TOS Dreadnought USS Victory

Is spockboy properly credited for SEPIA TREK?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_m6qNgEfCs

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=268372
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=268369
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Old June 23 2015, 06:31 PM   #10
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Re: TOS Dreadnought USS Victory

I did on my original deviantart post but I admit that I did forget to when I posted it here. In my defence, I was in a rush at the time. I will edit my original post now.
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Old June 23 2015, 11:37 PM   #11
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Re: TOS Dreadnought USS Victory

The main difference between FJ dreadnought and this one is the third nacelle placement.

This design, all three nacelles are mounted on the secondary hull.

FJ had his third nacelle atop the primary hull. In the event of a hull separation, each hull would have warp engine nacelle. FJ's dreadnought could seemingly separate into a Saladin-destroyer vessel independent of the secondary hull.
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Old June 23 2015, 11:40 PM   #12
Sarvek
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Re: TOS Dreadnought USS Victory

Absolutely great work!!!!!! Keep it up!!!!!
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Old June 24 2015, 08:29 AM   #13
Disco
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Re: TOS Dreadnought USS Victory

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Disco wrote: View Post
Is the third nacelle just for look or is there a practical purpose?
It's based on the original Franz Joseph design from the 70's, the Federation-Class Dreadnaught, which had a third engine. IIRC, the idea was that adding additional engines to the system would increase the ability for the ship to warp space around it, making it "move faster" than double-engine ships. Roddenberry decanonized it when he put out his "laws of starship design", one of which mentioned that starships may only have engines "in pairs", and in full view of each other, unobstructed by other hull structures. I'm paraphrasing, but that's the general gist. FJ's Saladin-Class Destroyer and Hermes-Class Scout suffered a similar apocryphal fate at the hands of Roddenberry's infamous memo typewriter.

As for later TNG-based designs that seem to violate the "in pairs" rule, like the "All Good Things" Enterprise-D and the "Best of Both Worlds" Niagara and Freedom, it has been postulated that all Galaxy-style "star drive" engines have twin warp coils in them. This is evidenced by two distinct red lights in the Bussard collector in the front of each nacelle. So, ships like the regular TNG Enterprise-D actually have the equivalent of 4 TOS-era nacelles and the "All Good Things" version technically had 6, not 3.

The Hutzel kitbash from DS9 has Excelsior-style engines and could be argued that it has upgraded nacelles with twin coils as well in the post-transwarp era.

Explaining away the single- and three-engine ships in the new JJ Abrams movies are easier:
A) They are all likely operating under different technical and physical principals than their Prime-Universe counterparts as evidenced by their beer-brewery engine room and massive spherical warp reactor (and a larger amount of pulse-phaser vs. beam-phaser weapons),
B) They are considerably bigger than their Prime-Universe counterparts and have plenty of room for twin coils, and most importantly...
C) They don't give 2 rat-turds in a rain barrel about Roddenberry's bullshit laws of starship design.

Thank you
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Old June 24 2015, 04:50 PM   #14
Shawnster
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Re: TOS Dreadnought USS Victory

Disco wrote: View Post
Is the third nacelle just for look or is there a practical purpose?
At the time FJ did the 1 and 3 nacelle ships (late 60s, early 70s prior to TMP), the engines were the power source for the starship. The original idea was drawn from the old prop planes and newly developed jet aircraft. The larger the aircraft, the more props or jets.

It was only from TMP onward that reworked the power source into a central warp core that directed the power into the nacelles to warp space.
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Old June 24 2015, 05:26 PM   #15
calamity_si
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Re: TOS Dreadnought USS Victory

Fascinating! I like the explanation given for the third nacelle in the book 'Dreadnought'. I actually got all the background info on the dreadnought USS Star Empire and used it for the Victory. Mainly because it made the dreadnought sound really kick-ass! I was really disappointed with the FJ dreadnought description, which made the ship out to be slow, expensive to operate and with little more size and firepower than a Constitution class heavy cruiser. Anyways, here's a rundown on the USS Victory:http://calamitysi.deviantart.com/art...iews-539006823
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