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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old May 6 2014, 10:11 PM   #1
WesleysDisciple
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Idea: Mirror universe dominion is pacifistic?

neither the mirror universe RPGbook, nor what we see of them in Rise like lions supports this... but opinioins?

The changelings being a pacifistic people who defend their member worlds from either a resurgent Terran empire, or the klingon cardassian alliance

thoughts?
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Old May 7 2014, 12:39 AM   #2
Hando
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Re: Idea: Mirror universe dominion is pacifistic?

Uh, no.

In effect the Mirror Dominion is the same as the Prime Dominion.

I keep wondering where the idea - that every member of the mirror universe is on the opposite moral side as his/her Prime twin - is coming from.
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Old May 7 2014, 12:45 AM   #3
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Idea: Mirror universe dominion is pacifistic?

Hando wrote: View Post
Uh, no.

In effect the Mirror Dominion is the same as the Prime Dominion.

I keep wondering where the idea - that every member of the mirror universe is on the opposite moral side as his/her Prime twin - is coming from.
I think the better understanding is that people in the MU are opportunistic more than idealistic (or maybe ideological).
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Old May 7 2014, 01:49 AM   #4
Emperor Norton
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Re: Idea: Mirror universe dominion is pacifistic?

The Mirror universe does not exist in terms of morality as traditionally understood. At least the Terran Empire doesn't. It's all about spheres of influence and personal benefit. And it may be personal benefit in terms of an individual, or in terms of an individual and their family, or themselves and their friends, or all paradoxically at the same time depending on the mood and situation. It's always looking out for themselves, though. Morality does not have a place, because it's an artificial definition anyway, and isn't one they use. It's basically the Mafia, plus a moral existential problem.

Of course, that's a hindsight explanation for a 1960s one-off that was meant to be fun space pirates, with no idea the series would last 50 years rather than maybe 5.
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Old May 7 2014, 02:03 AM   #5
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Re: Idea: Mirror universe dominion is pacifistic?

The Mirror Universe stopped having any plausibility for me when Vic became a real person. In Enterprise and TOS, it could have been an alternate universe where political and social forces drove people toward nastiness. In Ds9, however, the mirror universe became a fantasy playground, as though Holosuites were not enough.
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Old May 7 2014, 02:30 AM   #6
Emperor Norton
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Re: Idea: Mirror universe dominion is pacifistic?

Smellincoffee wrote: View Post
The Mirror Universe stopped having any plausibility for me when Vic became a real person. In Enterprise and TOS, it could have been an alternate universe where political and social forces drove people toward nastiness. In Ds9, however, the mirror universe became a fantasy playground, as though Holosuites were not enough.
My problem was more with DS9's Mirror Universe basically saying democracy failed. The narrative set up in TOS was being the change you wished to see, and making things good...and DS9's narrative was that that change and good only destroyed the Terran Empire.
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Old May 7 2014, 03:03 PM   #7
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Idea: Mirror universe dominion is pacifistic?

Smellincoffee wrote: View Post
The Mirror Universe stopped having any plausibility for me when Vic became a real person.
Some possibilities:

- Mirror Vic may be an android

- It might actually be Felix, the designer of the program, and not Vic. IIRC, he was only referred to by his last name...

As for the MU Dominion, I think it only appeared in a cliffhanger scene in a novel (with counterparts of Eris and Taran'atar). They appeared to act exactly the same as their regular universe counterparts.
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Old May 7 2014, 03:12 PM   #8
Dukhat
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Re: Idea: Mirror universe dominion is pacifistic?

Why would the MU Dominion be pacifistic? The "evil" humans were shown to be the only ones any different than their regular universe counterparts. All the other aliens (Vulcans, Klingons, Cardassians, Bajorans, Trill, etc.) were only changed by the direct or indirect actions of the Terran Empire. They would have been exactly the same as the regular universe despite that. No reason to think the Dominion would be any different.
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Old May 7 2014, 03:38 PM   #9
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Re: Idea: Mirror universe dominion is pacifistic?

I'll just say that given how OTT the MU is in general, having Vic, or at least the actor who plays him, show up in any capacity was hilarious to me. You've already got an increasingly improbable concept (do we really think so many of the people we know from the Primeverse would actually be there?), might as well go for broke.

I don't know about a pacifistic Dominion, but one where the Founders opted for optimism rather than pessimism could make for an interesting take I think.
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Old May 7 2014, 04:46 PM   #10
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Re: Idea: Mirror universe dominion is pacifistic?

Hando wrote: View Post
I keep wondering where the idea - that every member of the mirror universe is on the opposite moral side as his/her Prime twin - is coming from.
In fairness, having the Mirror Universe mirror things was its original point. It was a fairly simple Upsidedownland concept that worked best as a one-shot whose mechanics you didn't have to think about too much, kind of a shame that they pushed it beyond that.
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Old May 7 2014, 05:08 PM   #11
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Idea: Mirror universe dominion is pacifistic?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Smellincoffee wrote: View Post
The Mirror Universe stopped having any plausibility for me when Vic became a real person.
Some possibilities:

- Mirror Vic may be an android

- It might actually be Felix, the designer of the program, and not Vic. IIRC, he was only referred to by his last name...

As for the MU Dominion, I think it only appeared in a cliffhanger scene in a novel (with counterparts of Eris and Taran'atar). They appeared to act exactly the same as their regular universe counterparts.
I think the problem is not explaining why MU Vic is real, but why TrekU Vic is not.
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Old May 7 2014, 06:04 PM   #12
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Idea: Mirror universe dominion is pacifistic?

^ That's exactly what I just tried to do. Either MU "Vic" is an android, or he's somebody other than Vic. Nobody actually *called* him Vic, did they?
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Old May 7 2014, 06:23 PM   #13
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Re: Idea: Mirror universe dominion is pacifistic?

Arguably similar to the Great Klingon Appearance Change, sometimes things are better left unexplained.
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Old May 9 2014, 12:37 AM   #14
Emperor Norton
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Re: Idea: Mirror universe dominion is pacifistic?

DonIago wrote: View Post
Arguably similar to the Great Klingon Appearance Change, sometimes things are better left unexplained.
I liked Enterprise's explanation...
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Old May 9 2014, 02:19 AM   #15
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Re: Idea: Mirror universe dominion is pacifistic?

And others don't. Hence, arguably.
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