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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old July 19 2014, 04:27 PM   #1
Eliczo
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Do the timelords even know who The Doctor really is?

So I was thinking of the episode The Time of the Doctor and the question which can only be answered by the Doctor which the answer is his own name.

But thinking about the Cartmel Masterplan like 7th's line from Remembrance of the Daleks "I'm more then just another time lord") and the 11th Doctor's speech in The Rings of Akhaten "And I know things, secrets that must never be told, knowledge that must never be spoken"

So it gets me wondering do the time lords really know what they the answer to the question is?
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Old July 19 2014, 04:34 PM   #2
kirk55555
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Re: Do the timelords even know who The Doctor really is?

I'd say so. The Doctor probably spent a lot of time on Galifrey, since he probably didn't start as an old man



Plus, I'm pretty sure we can definitely say that the cartmel master plan is completely non canon, The Doctor was never some other timelord and the weird loom doesn't exist. So, to the timelords he was just another denizen of the planet for the first part of his life, they know his name and his early life in detail, at least until he stole the TARIDS. I'm not sure how much they knew about his adventures from then up until the timewar, but they were shown as being so powerful, I bet they probably knew most of them. So, I'd think that the Timelords definitely know the Doctor's name and history.
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Old July 19 2014, 05:20 PM   #3
Doctorwhovian
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Re: Do the timelords even know who The Doctor really is?

There are some elements of the Cartmel masterplan still present in episodes like Rememberance Of The Daleks and Silver Nemesis, although it was really the 90's New Adventures novels that took the concept and ran with it-although a lot of the details in those novels have been contradicted by the new series.

The Doctor still, for the most part, have a mysterious past apart from what we know. The title is "Doctor Who" after all.
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Old July 19 2014, 06:32 PM   #4
JoeZhang
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Re: Do the timelords even know who The Doctor really is?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post

Plus, I'm pretty sure we can definitely say that the cartmel master plan is completely non canon, The Doctor was never some other timelord and the weird loom doesn't exist.

There is an even more straight forward answer - there was no Cartmel masterplan, at least as far as the TV show is concerned - Cartmel has an idea he wanted to make the Doctor more mysterious again but what is now seen as this Masterplan is a mishmash of what very little was seen on screen with other ideas that existed afterwards from other writers and bits and bobs that were rejected from the TV screen.
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Old July 19 2014, 06:46 PM   #5
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Re: Do the timelords even know who The Doctor really is?

Doesn't the show imply at times that had they wished the Time Lords could have stopped The Doctor's journey through space and time when ever they wanted. For the most part is seems as if they tolerated his intervening in the universe.
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Old July 19 2014, 06:50 PM   #6
Tom
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Re: Do the timelords even know who The Doctor really is?

I always wanted to know more about how he fit into the Timelord society, why was he always inline to president (the Forth and Fifth doctor did just that)? Did he come from some type of noble family line? Is this why they let him get away with is interfering most of the time, barring TWG and TOATL of course.?
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Old July 19 2014, 07:08 PM   #7
Doctorwhovian
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Re: Do the timelords even know who The Doctor really is?

We do have some details about his college years, at least-attending the Prydonian academy (Where he presumably met most of the regular time lord characters on the classic show such as the Master, Rani, Drax, Borusa etc. )-and he had the nickname "Theta Sigma" as mentioned in the Armageddon factor and Happiness Patrol.
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Old July 19 2014, 07:13 PM   #8
MacLeod
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Re: Do the timelords even know who The Doctor really is?

Well from memory the Fourth Doctor became President by default after the other contender was killed, as for the Fifth

Flavia: Doctor, you have evaded your responsibilities for far too long. The disqualification of President Borusa leaves a gap at the very summit of the Time Lord hierarchy. There is only one who can take this place. Yet again, it is my duty and my pleasure to inform you that the full Council has exercised its emergency powers to appoint you to the position of President, to take office immediately.

Perhaps they thought making him President would see an end to his interferrence.
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Old July 19 2014, 07:14 PM   #9
DWF
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Re: Do the timelords even know who The Doctor really is?

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post

Plus, I'm pretty sure we can definitely say that the cartmel master plan is completely non canon, The Doctor was never some other timelord and the weird loom doesn't exist.

There is an even more straight forward answer - there was no Cartmel masterplan, at least as far as the TV show is concerned - Cartmel has an idea he wanted to make the Doctor more mysterious again but what is now seen as this Masterplan is a mishmash of what very little was seen on screen with other ideas that existed afterwards from other writers and bits and bobs that were rejected from the TV screen.
This is true as far as the TV show is concerned there was no Cartmel Masterplan. Furthermore we heard the Doctor tell stories about his childhood on Gallifrey.
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Old July 19 2014, 09:35 PM   #10
Blamo
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Re: Do the timelords even know who The Doctor really is?

Eliczo wrote: View Post
So it gets me wondering do the time lords really know what they the answer to the question is?
Probably not. I'd guess the Doctor, the Master, the Rani, the War Chief and the Monk all wiped their records from the archives before they left.

The problem is each producer/showrunner likes to put their stamp on the show, which generally likes to disregard what's been previously said.
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Old July 19 2014, 09:53 PM   #11
Sindatur
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Re: Do the timelords even know who The Doctor really is?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Well from memory the Fourth Doctor became President by default after the other contender was killed, as for the Fifth

Flavia: Doctor, you have evaded your responsibilities for far too long. The disqualification of President Borusa leaves a gap at the very summit of the Time Lord hierarchy. There is only one who can take this place. Yet again, it is my duty and my pleasure to inform you that the full Council has exercised its emergency powers to appoint you to the position of President, to take office immediately.

Perhaps they thought making him President would see an end to his interferrence.
The Gallifrey Audio Adventures have a fun little snippet about Flavia
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Old July 19 2014, 09:55 PM   #12
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Re: Do the timelords even know who The Doctor really is?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Well from memory the Fourth Doctor became President by default after the other contender was killed, as for the Fifth

Flavia: Doctor, you have evaded your responsibilities for far too long. The disqualification of President Borusa leaves a gap at the very summit of the Time Lord hierarchy. There is only one who can take this place. Yet again, it is my duty and my pleasure to inform you that the full Council has exercised its emergency powers to appoint you to the position of President, to take office immediately.

Perhaps they thought making him President would see an end to his interferrence.
That was my thinking too. Better inside the tent p1ss1ng out and all that...
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Old July 19 2014, 10:10 PM   #13
MacLeod
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Re: Do the timelords even know who The Doctor really is?

The question is if they bring Gallifrey back, will what ever is left of the High Council attempt to appoint The Doctor President for a third time. Of course we know what will happen if they try, he'll go on the run in his rackety old TARDIS after all that's how it all began.
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Old July 20 2014, 12:47 AM   #14
C.E. Evans
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Re: Do the timelords even know who The Doctor really is?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Doesn't the show imply at times that had they wished the Time Lords could have stopped The Doctor's journey through space and time when ever they wanted. For the most part is seems as if they tolerated his intervening in the universe.
Probably because he was considered useful to be out there at times for them.

From Genesis of the Daleks
TIME LORD: We pride ourselves we seldom interfere in the affairs of others.

FOURTH DOCTOR: Except mine.

TIME LORD: You, Doctor, are a special case. You enjoy the freedom we allow you. In return, occasionally, not continually, we ask you to do something for us...
But then there are also aspects of the Doctor's original time on Gallifrey that are still unknown to us...
From Silver Nemesis
LADY PEINFORTE: But I know your secrets.

SEVENTH DOCTOR: Very well--tell them.

LADY PEINFORTE: I shall tell them of Gallifrey...tell them of the Old Time, the Time of Chaos...
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Old July 20 2014, 01:36 AM   #15
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Re: Do the timelords even know who The Doctor really is?

If the age the Doctor gives is fairly accurate, he was around 200 when he left Gallifrey. Idris said he'd been opening the door the wrong way for 700 years.

As far as "the question", even in Hitchhiker's Guide, when they figured out the answer was 42, they realized they didn't know what the question was in the first place.
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