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Old May 5 2014, 05:49 AM   #1
garak1
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Star Charts - Bynar Planet Location

Just curious, was the location of the planet Bynaus, or Starbase 74, shown in the Star Trek Star Charts book? Both were in the TNG episode '11001001'.

I haven't been able to find either and was curious if somebody else had seen it. The Beta Quadrant maps are a little crowded.

This was one of my favourite episiodes of TNG.
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Old May 5 2014, 01:12 PM   #2
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Re: Star Charts - Bynar Planet Location

Unfortunately, Beta Magellan (Bynaus) is one of the locations absent from both the Star Charts and the Stellar Cartography update.

We might try to place it by looking at the travels of the Enterprise-D across the first season, but it quickly becomes clear that the ship was all over the map, at Beta Renner one episode (deep rimward of Tholian space beyond the Taurus Reach), and merely two episodes later at Maxia Zeta, near Ferengi space (at least Quadra Sigma, featuring in the episode in between, is located between the two areas).

To speculate in spite of this, we know that the previous episode they were at Angel, which is on the charts (near the Typhon Expanse and Romulan Neutral Zone, in accordance with what the episode in question established on that latter point), and three episodes later back past the Taurus Reach at Velara. So maybe it's... somewhere in the vast distance between these?

Since the ship heads to Bynaus in short order from Tarsas, a colony that supports an example of what has to be the biggest model of space facility the Federation builds (did they give the contract to the Galactic Empire or something?), I imagine Beta Magellan can't be too deep in the underexplored regions. The fact that Phlox knows about Bynars as early as the 2150s and has actually visited Bynaus strongly supports this. Then again, if random stars are blowing up near core Federation territories, you'd think there would be some negative effects to surrounding sectors, but no-one seems to care...

Bynaus, it seems, is wherever we want it to be. Bynaus is less a planet and more a state of mind. Is there not, in short, a little Bynaus in all of us?

NOTE: In my own pen-and-paper star charts, Beta Magellan is in fact one of the very few places I still haven't mapped, because I really am clueless as to where it might go.
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Old May 5 2014, 01:31 PM   #3
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Re: Star Charts - Bynar Planet Location

We might try to place it by looking at the travels of the Enterprise-D across the first season, but it quickly becomes clear that the ship was all over the map
...And then there's the further complication of choosing between airdate and stardate ordering of the adventures. Basically all 24th century Star Trek follows strict stardate ordering, so why should TNG S1 be an exception? (Save for the Amazing Resurrecting Tasha Yar issue, of course.)

In stardate terms, it's actually "Too Short a Season" that precedes the Bynar adventure, and "The Last Outpost" that immediately succeeds it. (That is, unless some stardate-less adventure such as "Symbiosis" intervenes.) But the time window between those two bracketing stardates is wide enough to allow for travel across hundreds if not thousands of lightyears, as per several other stardate/location pairings... So putting the Bynars between Mordan and Gamma Tauri won't help much, either.

(Besides, Gamma Tauri is a real star, and thus known to be distant in terms of the Star Charts assumptions; if our heroes went that far on a "criminal chase" mission, there's no telling where they might have been previously.)

Maxia Zeta, near Ferengi space
I'd be wary about associating a location where Ferengi were spotted with Ferengi space. Quite to the contrary, the Ferengi might only be bold enough to make visible moves when they are far, far away from home territory; disciplined military units would do this to protect the identity of the home turf, and rogue merchant princes would only operate far away from home anyway, in search of territories still free of competition.

This just to remind us all how clay-footed this charting business really is...

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Old May 5 2014, 01:34 PM   #4
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Re: Star Charts - Bynar Planet Location

Timo wrote: View Post
(Besides, Gamma Tauri is a real star, and thus known to be distant in terms of the Star Charts assumptions; if our heroes went that far on a "criminal chase" mission, there's no telling where they might have been previously.)

I'd be wary about associating a location where Ferengi were spotted with Ferengi space. Quite to the contrary, the Ferengi might only be bold enough to make visible moves when they are far, far away from home territory; disciplined military units would do this to protect the identity of the home turf, and rogue merchant princes would only operate far away from home anyway, in search of territories still free of competition.

This just to remind us all how clay-footed this charting business really is...

Timo Saloniemi
Good point, Timo. While the Star Charts do place Maxia near the Ferengi Alliance (so far as we can tell on a 2D map) I'd forgotten that Ferengi were encountered at Delphi Ardu and Gamma Tauri, which are indeed nowhere near Ferengi space.

Difficult, this, isn't it?
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Old May 5 2014, 10:59 PM   #5
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Re: Star Charts - Bynar Planet Location

Timo wrote: View Post
We might try to place it by looking at the travels of the Enterprise-D across the first season, but it quickly becomes clear that the ship was all over the map
...And then there's the further complication of choosing between airdate and stardate ordering of the adventures. Basically all 24th century Star Trek follows strict stardate ordering, so why should TNG S1 be an exception? (Save for the Amazing Resurrecting Tasha Yar issue, of course.)

In stardate terms, it's actually "Too Short a Season" that precedes the Bynar adventure, and "The Last Outpost" that immediately succeeds it. (That is, unless some stardate-less adventure such as "Symbiosis" intervenes.) But the time window between those two bracketing stardates is wide enough to allow for travel across hundreds if not thousands of lightyears, as per several other stardate/location pairings... So putting the Bynars between Mordan and Gamma Tauri won't help much, either.
I agree with you. Production/stardate order is the only way to make sense of TOS, and so why shouldn't we do so as well for TNG Season 1?
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Old May 6 2014, 12:53 AM   #6
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Re: Star Charts - Bynar Planet Location

Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
I agree with you. Production/stardate order is the only way to make sense of TOS, and so why shouldn't we do so as well for TNG Season 1?
First off, TOS's stardate order doesn't equal its production order except in very, very broad strokes -- especially if you include the animated series. Second, TNG's first-season stardate order became rather random after the first few episodes and can't possibly work, because it would place four Tasha Yar episodes after her death, as well as putting three "Acting Ensign Crusher" episodes before he was given that brevet rank.

And no, the later series do not follow strict stardate order. They attempt to, but there are glitches and anomalies, and the intervals between stardates are impossible to reconcile meaningfully with the passage of time within or between episodes. The only feasible thing to do with stardates is ignore them. They were created for the specific purpose of conveying no actual chronological information at all, to be meaningless placeholders so that the series could remain ambiguous about actual dates. Episode order should be based on story cues, on meaningful content, not arbitrary numerals.
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Old May 6 2014, 11:23 AM   #7
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Re: Star Charts - Bynar Planet Location

Christopher wrote: View Post
Episode order should be based on story cues, on meaningful content, not arbitrary numerals.
Exactly. When I was cataloguing episodes during early Season 1 of TNG, I came to realise that, although TOS worked best in production order, TNG worked best in airdate order. TAS probably works best in Alan Dean Foster novelization order (Star Trek Logs), where he made up his own stardates and linked new teasers with previous episode tags.
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Old May 7 2014, 05:25 AM   #8
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Re: Star Charts - Bynar Planet Location

Many thanks for the detailed replies.

Exactly. When I was cataloguing episodes during early Season 1 of TNG, I came to realise that, although TOS worked best in production order, TNG worked best in airdate order. TAS probably works best in Alan Dean Foster novelization order (Star Trek Logs), where he made up his own stardates and linked new teasers with previous episode tags.
Therin, I tend to agree with your point. It's a crying shame that neither stardates or production order works for TNG S1. Airdate order seems to be the only reasonably logical system to follow.

Christoper, I also agree with your point on stardates. I tend to ignore them now, particularly in the early seasons of TNG. Whilst stardates are generally more sequential and accurate in later seasons and going into DS9 and VOY, they are still too rubbery to use in any sort of analysis of time or distance. In short, they're meaningless.

Since the ship heads to Bynaus in short order from Tarsas, a colony that supports an example of what has to be the biggest model of space facility the Federation builds (did they give the contract to the Galactic Empire or something?), I imagine Beta Magellan can't be too deep in the underexplored regions. The fact that Phlox knows about Bynars as early as the 2150s and has actually visited Bynaus strongly supports this. Then again, if random stars are blowing up near core Federation territories, you'd think there would be some negative effects to surrounding sectors, but no-one seems to care...
Nasat, I understand your thinking there. I will offer a counterpoint - wouldn't it be better to have a major resupply/repair facility further from UFP proper space? That way it could properly cater for ships operating in more distant areas.

We know that most of the core UFP areas would have a lot of starbases and major shipyards, therefore it would be reasonable to assume that there are several key regional 'hubs' to cater to more remote operations. Starbase 74 could be such a hub.

Obviously it could not be too far away from Earth/Denobula to be consistent with Dr Phlox's lines from ENT. However, this doesn't mean the planet has to be located in the UFP core areas.

My thinking, going right back to early pre-Star Charts TNG days, was that Tarsas was a major regional UFP colony.
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Old May 7 2014, 04:14 PM   #9
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Re: Star Charts - Bynar Planet Location

Also, there are large swaths of DS9 episodes that don't have stardates. As an example, 15 of the 26 episodes of the show's fifth season were bereft of stardates.
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Old May 7 2014, 06:11 PM   #10
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Re: Star Charts - Bynar Planet Location

garak1 wrote: View Post
Nasat, I understand your thinking there. I will offer a counterpoint - wouldn't it be better to have a major resupply/repair facility further from UFP proper space? That way it could properly cater for ships operating in more distant areas.

We know that most of the core UFP areas would have a lot of starbases and major shipyards, therefore it would be reasonable to assume that there are several key regional 'hubs' to cater to more remote operations. Starbase 74 could be such a hub.

Obviously it could not be too far away from Earth/Denobula to be consistent with Dr Phlox's lines from ENT. However, this doesn't mean the planet has to be located in the UFP core areas.

My thinking, going right back to early pre-Star Charts TNG days, was that Tarsas was a major regional UFP colony.
Hmmm, good points there, garak1. I see what you mean.

With that, it makes it even harder to decide where Bynaus is!
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Old May 7 2014, 07:51 PM   #11
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Re: Star Charts - Bynar Planet Location

Does Bynaus really have to be close to Denobula just because Phlox has been there? Expansion into space is not necessarily linear, as evidenced by the fact that NX-01 got to Qo'noS before it got to the much closer Andoria. And Phlox is evidently pretty old and has thus had time to make many long journeys.
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Old May 7 2014, 09:03 PM   #12
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Re: Star Charts - Bynar Planet Location

^ I suppose Bynaus is the sort of planet that would attract attention from the scientific communities of other worlds. Now that you bring it up, I could certainly see the Interspecies Medical Exchange getting excited and pestering the Bynars into hosting a conference to demonstrate their "upgrades", with Phlox among the delegates. That is to say, he was on Bynaus specifically to view the procedure or learn from the Bynars, rather than simply happening to pass through. That might be worth a trip of several months into relatively unexplored space.

While we're at that point where Trek Lit, the Bynars and the 22nd Century all meet, there are a pair of Bynars in Rosetta - or, "former Bynars" as they insist, proudly informing the Humans that they've "skipped the network" and done a runner - they've also taken on actual names. They're one of the points of "exotic flavour" on the Thelasian coreworld, and while it's implied that Bynaus is a long way distant and Bynars are not a commonly known species here, it's possibly worth noting?

Oh, this is hopeless. Bynaus could be anywhere!
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Old May 7 2014, 09:32 PM   #13
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Re: Star Charts - Bynar Planet Location

Christopher wrote: View Post
Does Bynaus really have to be close to Denobula just because Phlox has been there? Expansion into space is not necessarily linear, as evidenced by the fact that NX-01 got to Qo'noS before it got to the much closer Andoria.
Now that you mention it, as evidenced by the people of Qo'noS themselves. The Klingon Art of War reveals that the first extra-system colony world of the Klingon Empire (or at least the first conquest) was Ty'Gokor, and strongly implies that they established the outpost on Boreth long before they claimed most of the space between there and Qo'noS (having cultural and religious motivation to get to Boreth's star, of course). So they seem to have "boldly gone" and jumped to interesting worlds first, bypassing other regions. (Plus, of course, Ch'gran sped out all the way to the Betreka Nebula - we know he was stretching things out to give himself time to get the other captains on his side, but still, it seems they were just flying as far as they could rather than pottering around exploring nearer stars).

(I wonder, given how loose Klingon centralized authority is at the best of times, just how many campaigns, wars and re-conquests were required to keep the Klingon colonies functioning as one empire and not a thousand and one claimants to the True Heritage of Kahless).
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Old May 8 2014, 02:10 AM   #14
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Re: Star Charts - Bynar Planet Location

Christopher wrote: View Post
Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
I agree with you. Production/stardate order is the only way to make sense of TOS, and so why shouldn't we do so as well for TNG Season 1?
First off, TOS's stardate order doesn't equal its production order except in very, very broad strokes -- especially if you include the animated series. Second, TNG's first-season stardate order became rather random after the first few episodes and can't possibly work, because it would place four Tasha Yar episodes after her death, as well as putting three "Acting Ensign Crusher" episodes before he was given that brevet rank.

And no, the later series do not follow strict stardate order. They attempt to, but there are glitches and anomalies, and the intervals between stardates are impossible to reconcile meaningfully with the passage of time within or between episodes. The only feasible thing to do with stardates is ignore them. They were created for the specific purpose of conveying no actual chronological information at all, to be meaningless placeholders so that the series could remain ambiguous about actual dates. Episode order should be based on story cues, on meaningful content, not arbitrary numerals.
Sorry, my mistake. I meant strictly production order for TOS.
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