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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old May 5 2014, 09:08 AM   #16
Botany Bay
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Re: Are the changes to TOS lore here to stay?

AustNerevar wrote: View Post

Do we even have an idea on whether or not there will be anymore Abramsverse content? I mean, I figured that was dead, now. It's kind of a shame, even given my disappointment with STiD. Two movies and the universe is dead.
Welcome to the forum.

I thought both of them were great fun, and I'd be happy to see more, but I've been wondering the same thing.

You got the feeling the studio was a little disappointed with the returns from the last one. There have been a few stories going around concerning Chris Pine's ability to carry a big film.

We shall see I guess.
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Old May 5 2014, 09:12 AM   #17
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Are the changes to TOS lore here to stay?

albion432 wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I'd mention the idea that the crew attended the academy together, but that almost came to light in the early 90's with Star Trek: The Academy Years and isn't an invention of the '09 reboot.
I have always had several problem with the Star Trek: The Academy Years concept that had the main crew members attending the Academy together. Here are the main ones:
1) The ages of the main characters range over more than twenty years. During the original series, McCoy and Scotty were the oldest, both around 45 and Chekov was the youngest, around 22, with the others all somewhere in between. Does it really make sense they'd all be in the Academy together?
People attend higher education at a wide variety of ages. I think there is a lot of wiggle room to put many of the characters together if writers want to. In the case of ST'09, Spock had graduated four years earlier and was serving as an instructor which kept him around to meet Kirk. It's a bit more questionable when trying to keep to TOS continuity (as The Academy Years tried to do), but in new versions of the TOS mythos, it would be fine IMO.

EDIT: And probably the idea that Khan is Star Trek's version of The Joker or Moriarty, an arch nemesis for Kirk and crew.
That would be interesting. Would you have Khan roaming around using the Relient as a pirate ship of sorts?
What I meant is that he'll keep coming back to menace every version of Kirk, just like Moriarty does each incarnation of Sherock or Zod does every Superman.
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No way. For me, canon matters and I consider Star Trek canon ended with the end of "Enterprise."
Nah. That particular "canon" ended, but there's no rule that says you can't start another "canon" . . . and another one a generation later. There's always room for a new variation on an old favorite. None of this stuff is set in stone.

You might just as well pretend that no more Tarzan movies were made after the Johnny Weismuller series ended . . . or that no Frankenstein movie made after 1948 is "canon."
Isn't it technically an alternate timeline in the same canon? Same universe (with a new lick of paint) but different events post-2233.
AustNerevar wrote:
Do we even have an idea on whether or not there will be anymore Abramsverse content? I mean, I figured that was dead, now. It's kind of a shame, even given my disappointment with STiD. Two movies and the universe is dead.
There's a third movie coming in 2016. Abrams will produce but not direct.
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Old May 5 2014, 09:12 AM   #18
Dukhat
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Re: Are the changes to TOS lore here to stay?

Skywalker wrote: View Post
CBS has nothing to do with the Abrams films. Paramount owns the Star Trek movie rights and CBS owns the TV rights. If CBS decided to do a new Trek series, they'd have to do their own thing (or maybe work out some sort of licensing agreement with Paramount if they want to set it in the Abramsverse).
Er, no, that's not true. CBS owns Star Trek in its entirety. They have given Paramount a license to produce Trek films, but they still own everything: movie rights, TV rights, DVD/Bluray and other merchandise rights.
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Old May 5 2014, 10:07 AM   #19
Noname Given
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Re: Are the changes to TOS lore here to stay?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Skywalker wrote: View Post
CBS has nothing to do with the Abrams films. Paramount owns the Star Trek movie rights and CBS owns the TV rights. If CBS decided to do a new Trek series, they'd have to do their own thing (or maybe work out some sort of licensing agreement with Paramount if they want to set it in the Abramsverse).
Er, no, that's not true. CBS owns Star Trek in its entirety. They have given Paramount a license to produce Trek films, but they still own everything: movie rights, TV rights, DVD/Bluray and other merchandise rights.
Um, no, CBS doesn't have rights to everything. The new JJ Abrams reboot films are 100% owned by Paramount.

CBS owns rights to all TV series (TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT) AND the Star Trek feature films from TMP through NEM.

Now BOTH CBS and Paramount are still tied to Viacom; but they are considered separate entities and thus have their own agendas. They have cross promoted stuff related to Star Trek, and probably will continue to do so, but again the IP rights are in fact split between the two.
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Old May 5 2014, 10:12 AM   #20
Dukhat
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Re: Are the changes to TOS lore here to stay?

Noname Given wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
Skywalker wrote: View Post
CBS has nothing to do with the Abrams films. Paramount owns the Star Trek movie rights and CBS owns the TV rights. If CBS decided to do a new Trek series, they'd have to do their own thing (or maybe work out some sort of licensing agreement with Paramount if they want to set it in the Abramsverse).
Er, no, that's not true. CBS owns Star Trek in its entirety. They have given Paramount a license to produce Trek films, but they still own everything: movie rights, TV rights, DVD/Bluray and other merchandise rights.
Um, no, CBS doesn't have rights to everything. The new JJ Abrams reboot films are 100% owned by Paramount.

CBS owns rights to all TV series (TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT) AND the Star Trek feature films from TMP through NEM.

Now BOTH CBS and Paramount are still tied to Viacom; but they are considered separate entities and thus have their own agendas. They have cross promoted stuff related to Star Trek, and probably will continue to do so, but again the IP rights are in fact split between the two.
CBS owns the rights to all the Star Trek TV shows, and it owns the rights to the characters in those shows. In order to make a Star Trek movie, Paramount must license the characters from CBS. Yes, the Abrams films are owned by Paramount, but CBS is making money off of them.
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Last edited by Dukhat; May 5 2014 at 10:23 AM.
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Old May 5 2014, 10:18 AM   #21
2takesfrakes
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Re: Are the changes to TOS lore here to stay?

It took me a long time to come to terms with the idea that Vulcan may be blown up ... permanently. But, now that I have, Mintaka III seems to hold the key to Vulcan's salvation. So, I wouldn't mind if Vulcan's NuTREK fate was permanent ...
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Old May 5 2014, 10:32 AM   #22
AustNerevar
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Re: Are the changes to TOS lore here to stay?

Botany Bay wrote: View Post

Welcome to the forum.
Thanks

There have been a few stories going around concerning Chris Pine's ability to carry a big film.
Can you give some examples?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
CBS owns the rights to all the Star Trek TV shows, and it owns the rights to the characters in those shows. In order to make a Star Trek movie, Paramount must license the characters from CBS. Yes, the Abrams films are owned by Paramount, but CBS is making money off of them.
I'm afraid you're wrong here. CBS owns the rights to Star Trek TV shows. Paramount owns the rights to Star Trek movies. There is a difference in brand recognition from the TOS characters Captain Kirk, Spock, McCoy and the JJ Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. They are two totally different series and I'm afraid in the world of intellectual property and licensing, Paramount owns the Abramsverse and CBS owns the TV shows. It's sadly not possible for the Abramsverse to cross over into TV land. :/
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Old May 5 2014, 10:43 AM   #23
Dukhat
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Re: Are the changes to TOS lore here to stay?

AustNerevar wrote: View Post
I'm afraid you're wrong here. CBS owns the rights to Star Trek TV shows. Paramount owns the rights to Star Trek movies. There is a difference in brand recognition from the TOS characters Captain Kirk, Spock, McCoy and the JJ Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. They are two totally different series and I'm afraid in the world of intellectual property and licensing, Paramount owns the Abramsverse and CBS owns the TV shows. It's sadly not possible for the Abramsverse to cross over into TV land. :/
No I'm not wrong. No matter how those characters are represented or who plays them, they're characters from TOS, and as such are owned by CBS. And CBS can damn well make a TV series based on the Abramsverse if they want to.
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Old May 5 2014, 11:13 AM   #24
HIjol
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Re: Are the changes to TOS lore here to stay?

I am told by a very reliable sources ( a former gaffer for Desilu) that CBS also owns the rights to the Borg designations "First of First, Primary Adjunct of Unimatrix 1" through "Seventh of Ten, Quadrupriary Adjunct of Unimatrix 359"...the rest went to Paramount, with the exception of "Zero of Zero, Nothingiary Adjunct of Unimatrix 000" ...something about "alternate timelines" and Nu-ness...

"Quadrupriary" was a lot harder to type than you might think...
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Old May 5 2014, 11:44 AM   #25
Rarewolf
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Re: Are the changes to TOS lore here to stay?

CrazyMatt wrote: View Post
No way. For me, canon matters and I consider Star Trek canon ended with the end of "Enterprise."
For me I'd say it ended with Voyager. Enterprise probably rewrites the canon as much as the NuTrek movies - at least the movies can have reason to be doing things differently, not pretending to have done everything first. That undermines Kirk's legacy to say he is just following in their footsteps, having an easier ride.

Undoing the movies is easy to do. Just have Kirk go back in time to save his father. Once you introduce the concept of altering time, altering the alteration is fair game. Cheating the cheater.
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Old May 5 2014, 12:30 PM   #26
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Are the changes to TOS lore here to stay?

I've recently been reading through some old ScoTpress Trek fanzines and newsletters (online here) and find it amusing to read beneath the editorial, that story submissions would only be accepted for Trek set during the original series era. Why? The editors don't don't buy the movies as real Star Trek. They accept alternate universe-set stories, but even those must be based purely on the series and not the movies (which at the time were I-III)

So those of you who don't think Enterprise or the reboot count as True Trek are f--king amateurs.
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Old May 5 2014, 12:31 PM   #27
Robert Comsol
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Re: Are the changes to TOS lore here to stay?

Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
I just hope that the next reboot is a 100% reboot that just starts by saying; "IN A COMPLETELY ALTERNATE UNIVERSE TO PRE-ESTABLISHED CANON..."
"BASED ON STAR TREK" would sufficiently do the job for me
(like they did with ENT).

@ Skywalker

Freakin' cool avatar!

Bob
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Old May 5 2014, 12:44 PM   #28
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Re: Are the changes to TOS lore here to stay?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
"BASED ON STAR TREK" would sufficiently do the job for me]
I've long wondered - why is it First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis are "Based on 'Star Trek' created by Gene Roddenberry", rather than "Based on 'Star Trek The Next Generation' created by Gene Roddenberry"?
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Old May 5 2014, 12:45 PM   #29
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Re: Are the changes to TOS lore here to stay?

Regarding the original thread question, I don't recognize the JJ films as "changes to TOS lore."

The way I see canon, JJ-Trek is more like various toys that came out in the 1970s, the ones that had nothing to do with Star Trek beyond its name on the packaging:







The new films are just more merchandise to me. They are external add-ons. Yes, I go see them, but they're not a true part of the fictional universe. And the JJ ships don't have real artificial gravity.

Many will disagree, but I'm Old School when it comes to the 23rd century.
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Old May 5 2014, 12:50 PM   #30
Robert Comsol
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Re: Are the changes to TOS lore here to stay?

^^ Wow, some real hideous merchandise I was gratefully (and previously) not aware of.

Bob
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