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Old May 6 2014, 01:00 PM   #31
DarthTom
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.5 - "First of His Name" - Rate and discuss

Garak wrote: View Post
You have to wonder why Joffrey was such a crazy MF in the first place though...
inbreeding?
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Old May 6 2014, 01:30 PM   #32
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.5 - "First of His Name" - Rate and discuss

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post

Joffrey was sick and twisted, but he was also dumb as a rock and could be easily outwitted by Tyrion or put in his place by Tywin. And like a chained up pitbull, once you were out of his sight you probably wouldn't have as much to worry about.

Cersei meanwhile is more like a shark who could come up and chomp your head off anywhere and at any time.
Cersei has a bark, but no bite. How many people has she killed or even conspired to kill? Joffrey has killed and ordered people to kill (like Robert's bastards). He may be dumber than his mother but he's far more dangerous.
Cersei doesn't need to directly kill people. Saying she has a bark but no bite seriously underestimates her cunning. She's a woman trying to cling to the top in a man's world, and she's not doing a terrible job at it.
Okay, saying she has no bite is a bit condescending. She has power, and reminds people that she has it from time to time, but the bark/bite analogy was in comparison to Joffrey being "a chained up pitbull". There's nothing chained about him.
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Old May 6 2014, 02:28 PM   #33
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.5 - "First of His Name" - Rate and discuss

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post

Joffrey was sick and twisted, but he was also dumb as a rock and could be easily outwitted by Tyrion or put in his place by Tywin. And like a chained up pitbull, once you were out of his sight you probably wouldn't have as much to worry about.

Cersei meanwhile is more like a shark who could come up and chomp your head off anywhere and at any time.
Cersei has a bark, but no bite. How many people has she killed or even conspired to kill? Joffrey has killed and ordered people to kill (like Robert's bastards). He may be dumber than his mother but he's far more dangerous.
Cersei doesn't need to directly kill people. Saying she has a bark but no bite seriously underestimates her cunning. She's a woman trying to cling to the top in a man's world, and she's not doing a terrible job at it.
I beg to differ.

She's a mean and vindictive person but she's no master leader like Tywin Lannister.

She let Joffrey get away from under her control which sparked the entire war.

She alienated potential allies for personal reasons.

She basically has no power to speak of as soon as someone with actual power shows up such as Tywin. She has no power where it really matters and she is no master schemer like Littlefinger or Varys who have no open power but are pulling the strings from behind the scene.

She's in over her head when it comes to far reaching decisions and her pettiness often enough made enemies where the right word at the right time could make allies (even if she may have despised them in secret).
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Old May 6 2014, 04:23 PM   #34
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.5 - "First of His Name" - Rate and discuss

This episode was back up to an excellent rating for me. The show excels at putting people together who quickly develop into very entertaining duos, and Brienne and Pod are the latest example of that. The resolution of the Craster's Keep storyline was great. There were a lot of scenes with good character interplay: Cersei and Margery, Cersei and Oberyn, Sansa and Lysa, etc.

This episode hit a new series high in the ratings: 7.155 million viewers for the first-run episode.
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Old May 6 2014, 04:52 PM   #35
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.5 - "First of His Name" - Rate and discuss

I think Cersei is smart, but not as smart as she thinks she is. She's definitely deadly, though. Wouldn't want to get on her bad side.

Lena Headey is phenomenal in the part. Great casting.
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Old May 6 2014, 06:45 PM   #36
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.5 - "First of His Name" - Rate and discuss

^Lena Headey is a fine actor.

Out Of My Vulcan Mind wrote: View Post
...The show excels at putting people together who quickly develop into very entertaining duos, and Brienne and Pod are the latest example of that...
I strongly agree.
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Old May 6 2014, 07:10 PM   #37
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.5 - "First of His Name" - Rate and discuss

So far this season the show is averaging 17.8 million viewers across all platforms, a 25% increase from last season.
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Old May 6 2014, 09:04 PM   #38
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.5 - "First of His Name" - Rate and discuss

FPAlpha wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post

Cersei has a bark, but no bite. How many people has she killed or even conspired to kill? Joffrey has killed and ordered people to kill (like Robert's bastards). He may be dumber than his mother but he's far more dangerous.
Cersei doesn't need to directly kill people. Saying she has a bark but no bite seriously underestimates her cunning. She's a woman trying to cling to the top in a man's world, and she's not doing a terrible job at it.
I beg to differ.

She's a mean and vindictive person but she's no master leader like Tywin Lannister.

She let Joffrey get away from under her control which sparked the entire war.

She alienated potential allies for personal reasons.

She basically has no power to speak of as soon as someone with actual power shows up such as Tywin. She has no power where it really matters and she is no master schemer like Littlefinger or Varys who have no open power but are pulling the strings from behind the scene.

She's in over her head when it comes to far reaching decisions and her pettiness often enough made enemies where the right word at the right time could make allies (even if she may have despised them in secret).

This. She was born on third base and thinks she hit a triple. But, all of her power comes from her position, that her father got her. Her almost undoings have come from her own foolishness.

If she was smart like her youngest brother, then she would be a real threat. But as it is, her pride makes her dangerous.
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Old May 6 2014, 10:18 PM   #39
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.5 - "First of His Name" - Rate and discuss

FPAlpha wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post

Cersei has a bark, but no bite. How many people has she killed or even conspired to kill? Joffrey has killed and ordered people to kill (like Robert's bastards). He may be dumber than his mother but he's far more dangerous.
Cersei doesn't need to directly kill people. Saying she has a bark but no bite seriously underestimates her cunning. She's a woman trying to cling to the top in a man's world, and she's not doing a terrible job at it.
I beg to differ.

She's a mean and vindictive person but she's no master leader like Tywin Lannister.

She let Joffrey get away from under her control which sparked the entire war.

She alienated potential allies for personal reasons.

She basically has no power to speak of as soon as someone with actual power shows up such as Tywin. She has no power where it really matters and she is no master schemer like Littlefinger or Varys who have no open power but are pulling the strings from behind the scene.

She's in over her head when it comes to far reaching decisions and her pettiness often enough made enemies where the right word at the right time could make allies (even if she may have despised them in secret).
Through and through. This is even clearer in the books, especially in her POV chapters.
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Old May 6 2014, 11:18 PM   #40
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.5 - "First of His Name" - Rate and discuss

FPAlpha wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
Cersei has a bark, but no bite. How many people has she killed or even conspired to kill? Joffrey has killed and ordered people to kill (like Robert's bastards). He may be dumber than his mother but he's far more dangerous.
Cersei doesn't need to directly kill people. Saying she has a bark but no bite seriously underestimates her cunning. She's a woman trying to cling to the top in a man's world, and she's not doing a terrible job at it.
I beg to differ.

She's a mean and vindictive person but she's no master leader like Tywin Lannister.

She let Joffrey get away from under her control which sparked the entire war.

She alienated potential allies for personal reasons.

She basically has no power to speak of as soon as someone with actual power shows up such as Tywin. She has no power where it really matters and she is no master schemer like Littlefinger or Varys who have no open power but are pulling the strings from behind the scene.

She's in over her head when it comes to far reaching decisions and her pettiness often enough made enemies where the right word at the right time could make allies (even if she may have despised them in secret).
Bingo. Cersei thinks she's this master politician when she's far from it.
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Old May 6 2014, 11:38 PM   #41
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.5 - "First of His Name" - Rate and discuss

Yeah, Cersei is only dangerous in that she's a wealthy person with a mean streak a mile wide. It's the same danger posed by a petulant and self obsessed child with a loaded gun. Potentially lethal if you happen to be standing in the wrong place, but there's nothing subtle about her and she doesn't have the awareness to see beyond her own personal little world.

Joffrey was basically Cersei turned up to 11 and with none of the social restrictions that comes with being a woman in this world that may have (outwardly) tempered her somewhat. I don't remember if it's been mentioned in the series, but I recall in the books that as a child she used to physically torture Tyrion as a newborn. That's seriously, grade-a messed up sadism.
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Old May 7 2014, 12:02 AM   #42
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.5 - "First of His Name" - Rate and discuss

Didn't she arrange for Robert's death, and did so without anyone ever officially even suspecting her of engaging in foul play? I'd say taking out a popular king, making it look like an accident, and eliminating any threat of reprisal for doing so is a bit more of a notch up from anything Joffrey did.
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Old May 7 2014, 12:12 AM   #43
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.5 - "First of His Name" - Rate and discuss

Robert's death was just dumb luck. All she arranged was for him to be slightly more drunk than normal in an already risky situation.
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Old May 7 2014, 12:18 AM   #44
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.5 - "First of His Name" - Rate and discuss

Venardhi wrote: View Post
Robert's death was just dumb luck. All she arranged was for him to be slightly more drunk than normal in an already risky situation.
He placed himself in risky situations regularly. If her plan hadn't worked that time, she could have kept at it until it did. Using a subtle ploy that can be reused until you get the outcome you want rather than a bold ploy that puts everything on the line is a smart play. That's not to say she's always smart and/or subtle, but she was in that instance.
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Old May 7 2014, 01:18 AM   #45
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.5 - "First of His Name" - Rate and discuss

Skywalker wrote: View Post
FPAlpha wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Cersei doesn't need to directly kill people. Saying she has a bark but no bite seriously underestimates her cunning. She's a woman trying to cling to the top in a man's world, and she's not doing a terrible job at it.
I beg to differ.

She's a mean and vindictive person but she's no master leader like Tywin Lannister.

She let Joffrey get away from under her control which sparked the entire war.

She alienated potential allies for personal reasons.

She basically has no power to speak of as soon as someone with actual power shows up such as Tywin. She has no power where it really matters and she is no master schemer like Littlefinger or Varys who have no open power but are pulling the strings from behind the scene.

She's in over her head when it comes to far reaching decisions and her pettiness often enough made enemies where the right word at the right time could make allies (even if she may have despised them in secret).
Bingo. Cersei thinks she's this master politician when she's far from it.
Cersei is good at tactics, not strategy. As in winning battles and losing wars.
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