RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,663
Posts: 5,429,045
Members: 24,815
Currently online: 485
Newest member: AlphaZero


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 28 2014, 12:42 AM   #61
dammitjim6400
Ensign
 
Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Yes I agree, in TOS Kirk had leadership skills when he was an ENSIGN when he logged a mistake made by Ben Finney, he commanded away teams when he was a Lieutenant.There's no reason why he need to act like a buffoon in JJ Abrams' Trek, if he's to become the hero that we know, of there's no way he'd start out as a total loser.
dammitjim6400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2014, 06:01 AM   #62
Joel_Kirk
Commodore
 
Joel_Kirk's Avatar
 
Location: Chillin' on Ligon II...
Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

The Colonel wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
^He's unsure of himself by design, the idea being that he is ten years younger than the Kirk of TOS and isn't the confident leader quite yet.
Yes, he is young and inexperienced compared to TOS Kirk. But, the problem I have is that he is never shown to be a particularly good leader, someone who can bring together and inspire his crew while providing a stable center. Chris Pine is a fine actor but the scripts he has been given make his Kirk come off as an obnoxious, arrogant frat boy with a high IQ. Not only is he unlikeable to the audience, his crew is constantly annoyed and exasperated by him. His only saving grace is his innate intelligence and bravery but he is not someone you'd want to follow and he seems to always be out for his own personal gratification.

Some of these problems stem from the necessity for the writers to follow through with the ridiculous idea of Kirk being insta-promoted from Cadet to Captain of the flagship. I think ST:XI would have worked better if Kirk had graduated from the academy several years before Nero's attack and was a regular officer serving under Pike who was suddenly thrust into command. There was no reason to condense everything into such a short time span. Instead we wound up with Starfleet:90201.

There is potential in Pine's Kirk but the character needs some much better writing. I could also say the same for the film series in general, it needs to be toned down a bit and take its time to develop a good story. The acting, directing and visual effects are all great but I'm still waiting for a decent story. NuTrek has so far fallen into the trappings of lazy, cliché, big budget action movie writing. The story doesn't exist for its own sake, its just there to somewhat plausibly drive events towards the next CGI action set piece. Again there is potential and definitely more substance than say the Star Wars prequels (NuKirk is nowhere near as grating as Anakin) but every time I watch the new movies, they make me miss the lost art of screen writing.
Star Trek 3 needs a Lawrence Kasdan or Nicholas Meyer.
__________________
Joel_Kirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2014, 04:48 AM   #63
Poltargyst
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

dammitjim6400 wrote: View Post
Yes I agree, in TOS Kirk had leadership skills when he was an ENSIGN when he logged a mistake made by Ben Finney, he commanded away teams when he was a Lieutenant.There's no reason why he need to act like a buffoon in JJ Abrams' Trek, if he's to become the hero that we know, of there's no way he'd start out as a total loser.
Except TOS Kirk's father lived, and NuKirk never knew his father. There's no reason NuKirk has to end up like TOS Kirk.
Poltargyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 23 2014, 09:22 AM   #64
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

dammitjim6400 wrote: View Post
Yes I agree, in TOS Kirk had leadership skills when he was an ENSIGN when he logged a mistake made by Ben Finney, he commanded away teams when he was a Lieutenant.There's no reason why he need to act like a buffoon in JJ Abrams' Trek, if he's to become the hero that we know, of there's no way he'd start out as a total loser.
Pine's Kirk was saving the world and the entire Federation at a time Shatner's Kirk was panicking and freezing at his post ("Obsession")
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 23 2014, 11:08 AM   #65
solariabsg25
Captain
 
solariabsg25's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, UK
View solariabsg25's Twitter Profile
Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Poltargyst wrote: View Post
dammitjim6400 wrote: View Post
Yes I agree, in TOS Kirk had leadership skills when he was an ENSIGN when he logged a mistake made by Ben Finney, he commanded away teams when he was a Lieutenant.There's no reason why he need to act like a buffoon in JJ Abrams' Trek, if he's to become the hero that we know, of there's no way he'd start out as a total loser.
Except TOS Kirk's father lived, and NuKirk never knew his father. There's no reason NuKirk has to end up like TOS Kirk.
Ironically, because of the changes in the timeline, NuKirk is the one character who should not come to be exacly like his Prime counterpart. Didn't Spock Prime mention that Kirk's father, a decorated Starfleet officer, lived to see him take command of the Enterprise? The brief dialogue we heard of Kirk's stepfather doesn't lead me to believe he is being brought up in the same nurturing environment.

After STID, I feel Kirk will mature, as Pike implied he basically had the ship handed to him on a silver platter and he's learnt little of how to command, thinking at all times his way is the best way, and so what if Starfleet sees things differently?

Taking his command from him, along with the death of his mentor, may have been the wake-up call Kirk needed to start toning down his arrogance.
__________________
"A perfect organism, unclouded by remorse, or human illusions of morality." - Ash, Alien
solariabsg25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 23 2014, 11:18 AM   #66
Melakon
Vice Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos
Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

^ This essentially happens to both Kirk and Spock in the alternate universe. Everything we knew about the background of the Prime characters has changed, and will cause them to develop as different people. The issue of Chekov's age makes him another wild card.
__________________
Curly: If at first you don't succeed, keep on suckin' til you do succeed.
--Movie Maniacs (1936)
Melakon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 23 2014, 09:34 PM   #67
Lucky
Commander
 
Lucky's Avatar
 
Location: Mississippi
Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

I loved what Pine did with the role. He brought his own thing to it and was great. Shatner will always be my favorite, of course, but Pine (and the rest of the reboot cast) carries on the tradition of the original actors ably.
Lucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2014, 09:50 AM   #68
Smellmet
Commander
 
Smellmet's Avatar
 
Location: Goole
Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

I think they've nailed the big three as good as could possibly be expected, I want to see some Kirk awesome-ness in the next instalment though.
Smellmet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2014, 04:12 PM   #69
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Smellmet wrote: View Post
I think they've nailed the big three as good as could possibly be expected, I want to see some Kirk awesome-ness in the next instalment though.


I want the full-strength TOS Jim Kirk.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2014, 04:54 PM   #70
Smellmet
Commander
 
Smellmet's Avatar
 
Location: Goole
Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Same here, enough of this cocky upstart getting promoted and demoted within minutes I want to see the tactical genius we all know and love shine through now
Smellmet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27 2014, 09:23 PM   #71
ReedEnterprise
Captain
 
ReedEnterprise's Avatar
 
Location: Alpha Quadrant
Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

As Kirk, he seems to keep true to the essence of the character. He doesn't take it into another direction, yet he makes Kirk feel like his own. He does a good job. I was very happy with the final 2 products so far.

And he seems to be like a good guy, even with that doc Shatner did. You could tell they got along and there was no hard feeling what so ever.
__________________
"Reed Alert, that's not bad"...Malcolm Reed
ReedEnterprise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27 2014, 09:54 PM   #72
mos6507
Captain
 
mos6507's Avatar
 
Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Pine's Kirk was saving the world and the entire Federation at a time Shatner's Kirk was panicking and freezing at his post ("Obsession")
Pine's Kirk was propped up by the plot to save the world in an unrealistic comic-bookish way, whereas Shatner's Kirk backstory is more realistic, showing that he had to really pay his dues.

That Pine's Kirk achieved what he did was all based on the plot handing the heroism to him on a silver platter as he was "destined" for greatness ala Luke Skywalker. Even when he was getting chewed out by Pike, he was still treated as "the chosen one". More Star Wars than Trek.

Poltargyst wrote: View Post
Except TOS Kirk's father lived, and NuKirk never knew his father. There's no reason NuKirk has to end up like TOS Kirk.
It has nothing to do with world-building consistently. It ultimately comes down to audience expectations. If the audience wants an arrogant fratboy Kirk, regardless of how authentic that is to the character, that's what they get. The rationalizations are there only to enable the character to suit current fashion-trends.
__________________
Fem Trekz on Facebook
mos6507 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27 2014, 10:39 PM   #73
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

mos6507 wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Pine's Kirk was saving the world and the entire Federation at a time Shatner's Kirk was panicking and freezing at his post ("Obsession")
Pine's Kirk was propped up by the plot to save the world in an unrealistic comic-bookish way, whereas Shatner's Kirk backstory is more realistic, showing that he had to really pay his dues.

That Pine's Kirk achieved what he did was all based on the plot handing the heroism to him on a silver platter as he was "destined" for greatness ala Luke Skywalker. Even when he was getting chewed out by Pike, he was still treated as "the chosen one". More Star Wars than Trek.

Poltargyst wrote: View Post
Except TOS Kirk's father lived, and NuKirk never knew his father. There's no reason NuKirk has to end up like TOS Kirk.
It has nothing to do with world-building consistently. It ultimately comes down to audience expectations. If the audience wants an arrogant fratboy Kirk, regardless of how authentic that is to the character, that's what they get. The rationalizations are there only to enable the character to suit current fashion-trends.
Kirk was never one to lack confidence, and he has a healthy ego. Arrogant? Maybe a bit, but not as stand-offish and unapproachable as the equally arrogant Picard. The fratboy part seems inaccurate if you are referring to Kirk as a boisterous and shallow party animal.

In the year of his captaincy after ST09, Kirk didn't have an authority figure to reign him in (in fact, he never did to that point, unlike TOS Kirk). It seemed all too easy for him, and that may have turned him a bit arrogant. The thing is, all Kirk's arrogance comes to bite him in the ass in STID.

Remember, the opening of STID up to the point of Kirk losing command established that giving him the Enterprise at the end of ST09 was poor judgment by those who did it, including Pike. Even Pike must realize by STID that Kirk wasn't ready for the responsibility. Not yet, anyway. That's why Pike wanted Kirk to be his first officer, to mentor him, and in a way, make up for the mistake of putting him in the captain's chair when he wasn't ready.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28 2014, 01:07 AM   #74
Shat Happens
Captain
 
Shat Happens's Avatar
 
Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

I see, on average, the posts in this thread are unconfortable that young (pine) Kirk doesn't seem he's going to grow to be the old (Shatner) Kirk like he was supposed to do.

I agree. Two movies already were made without paying enought atention to Kirk's character in favor of too many other elements crammed (come on, "Khan"?) and that was frankly disappointing. Makes one wonder how good would have been the Star Trek movie project Harve Bennet tried to make.

(if anyone don't know: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star...irst_Adventure

But what is done, is done. I just hope next fight Pine Kirk gets into, he uses classic Kirk Fu.

(Come on, Kirk Fu is amazing and -- don't lie to me -- you wish you could win a fight with it)
Shat Happens is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 28 2014, 02:38 AM   #75
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Shat Happens wrote: View Post
I see, on average, the posts in this thread are unconfortable that young (pine) Kirk doesn't seem he's going to grow to be the old (Shatner) Kirk like he was supposed to do.

I agree. Two movies already were made without paying enought atention to Kirk's character in favor of too many other elements crammed (come on, "Khan"?) and that was frankly disappointing. Makes one wonder how good would have been the Star Trek movie project Harve Bennet tried to make.

(if anyone don't know: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star...irst_Adventure

But what is done, is done. I just hope next fight Pine Kirk gets into, he uses classic Kirk Fu.

(Come on, Kirk Fu is amazing and -- don't lie to me -- you wish you could win a fight with it)
Um, STID was all about Kirk's character. The story was so Kirk-centric, it would've even made Shatner blush.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:54 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.