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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 12 2014, 08:26 PM   #31
Pasi Nurminen
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Chris Pine's Kirk is a complete moron with no redeeming qualities or features who inherits his position without doing anything to earn it. Though, I'm sure this is not Pine's fault, but rather the fault of the writers and directors. Pine's Kirk seems to embody the idiotic 20-something frat-boy male archetype that is very much in vogue in Hollywood these days.
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Old May 13 2014, 11:26 AM   #32
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

He just saved the world. Rescued Chris Pike from Romulans. Saved another planet. Exposed a highest-level plot at Starfleet and stopped a planned war with the Klingons.

Nope, he didn't do a thing
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Old May 13 2014, 12:10 PM   #33
JarodRussell
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
He just saved the world. Rescued Chris Pike from Romulans.
He did that in away missions. In what way does away mission qualify him to command a starship? It rather qualifies him to be some sort of special forces dude. But not commanding officer of a ship.
Exposed a highest-level plot at Starfleet and stopped a planned war with the Klingons.
I just wanted to say something about that, but the whole plot is totally messed up anyways. I never thought I'd say this, but Abramstrek 1 is the better film.
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Old May 13 2014, 12:27 PM   #34
CommishSleer
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
When did Kirk whine or act like a baby in ID?
1. When he was talking to Uhura about how Spock was mean or something. I actually don't get Uhura and Kirk's problem with Spock here.

2. To a lesser extent Kirk making racist remarks to Spock on the shuttle ride back to the Enterprise.

I don't care if Spock was mean or a dobber or unfair. Kirk's in charge. He doesn't have to resort to name calling or gossiping to a 'girlfriend'. He just needs to man up like he did with Scotty or going over to face Marcus himself.
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Old May 13 2014, 12:45 PM   #35
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
When did Kirk whine or act like a baby in ID?
1. When he was talking to Uhura about how Spock was mean or something. I actually don't get Uhura and Kirk's problem with Spock here.

2. To a lesser extent Kirk making racist remarks to Spock on the shuttle ride back to the Enterprise.

I don't care if Spock was mean or a dobber or unfair. Kirk's in charge. He doesn't have to resort to name calling or gossiping to a 'girlfriend'. He just needs to man up like he did with Scotty or going over to face Marcus himself.
Actually it was less Spock being mean and more question what his Kirk's decisions, and considering Sisko basically threatened to shove his foot up Kira's ass for doing something like that and Jellico fired Riker over it he was kind of restrained over it.

And yes Spock had a point but it still doesn't change that under Star Trek rules Kirk can chew Spock out about.
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Old May 13 2014, 12:52 PM   #36
Yanks
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Dennis wrote: View Post
Urban comes across to me as an impressionist and not a lot more. His routine is Pissed-Off McCoy, only one of the three or four attitudes Kelley was capable of as McCoy.

I enjoy Urban, but I enjoy impressions.
If you've watched Almost Human you can see he didn't change his delivery that much in the Star Trek Movies.

I think outstanding casting is what needs to be herlded here.
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Old May 13 2014, 03:10 PM   #37
CommishSleer
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
He just saved the world. Rescued Chris Pike from Romulans.
He did that in away missions. In what way does away mission qualify him to command a starship? It rather qualifies him to be some sort of special forces dude. But not commanding officer of a ship.
In the post Nero universe of ST09 saving Earth does qualify you for whatever the %^$# you want. The hand of the Federation President's daughter. The key to the Whitehouse's bathroom. The captaincy of the Earth's flagship is the least they can do.

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
When did Kirk whine or act like a baby in ID?
1. When he was talking to Uhura about how Spock was mean or something. I actually don't get Uhura and Kirk's problem with Spock here.

2. To a lesser extent Kirk making racist remarks to Spock on the shuttle ride back to the Enterprise.

I don't care if Spock was mean or a dobber or unfair. Kirk's in charge. He doesn't have to resort to name calling or gossiping to a 'girlfriend'. He just needs to man up like he did with Scotty or going over to face Marcus himself.
Actually it was less Spock being mean and more question what his Kirk's decisions, and considering Sisko basically threatened to shove his foot up Kira's ass for doing something like that and Jellico fired Riker over it he was kind of restrained over it.

And yes Spock had a point but it still doesn't change that under Star Trek rules Kirk can chew Spock out about.
I'm not objecting to Kirk imposing discipline. Just the way he did it. He shouldn't have to resort to making racist comments or whining to Spock's girlfriend.
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Old May 13 2014, 04:21 PM   #38
HIjol
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
Chris Pine's Kirk is a complete moron with no redeeming qualities or features who inherits his position without doing anything to earn it. Though, I'm sure this is not Pine's fault, but rather the fault of the writers and directors. Pine's Kirk seems to embody the idiotic 20-something frat-boy male archetype that is very much in vogue in Hollywood these days.
Hey, now...do not hold back...say what you really think...
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Old May 13 2014, 04:27 PM   #39
Yanks
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

HIjol wrote: View Post
Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
Chris Pine's Kirk is a complete moron with no redeeming qualities or features who inherits his position without doing anything to earn it. Though, I'm sure this is not Pine's fault, but rather the fault of the writers and directors. Pine's Kirk seems to embody the idiotic 20-something frat-boy male archetype that is very much in vogue in Hollywood these days.
Hey, now...do not hold back...say what you really think...
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Old May 13 2014, 07:40 PM   #40
Pasi Nurminen
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
He just saved the world. Rescued Chris Pike from Romulans. Saved another planet. Exposed a highest-level plot at Starfleet and stopped a planned war with the Klingons.

Nope, he didn't do a thing
He became Captain of the Enterprise after goading Spock to beat him up. At that point in the film, he'd done absolutely nothing to demonstrate any kind of leadership capabilities, instead only proving himself an idiot (and probably mentally ill) at every turn. After all, prior to that point, all he's done is 1. be born, 2. trash a car, 3. get in a barfight, 4. cheat on an exam, 5. beat guys up and fire a guy. I'm not sure where in there he demonstrates any kind of cunning or skill or leadership abilities (unless his ability to beat guys up and fire a gun qualify him to command the Federation's flagship). I guess all the events which prove his leadership abilities must've occurred off-screen.

And if you examine the events of the films following this event, none of his actions come from the content of his character, but instead come from the plot (and I use the term loosely). J.J. Abrams' films are those in which the characters do whatever is required from them in order to advance the plot; the story does not come from the characters, but rather the plot.
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Old May 13 2014, 07:45 PM   #41
Yanks
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

We are seeing "blockbuster popcorn movie" Kirk rather than "I've been on a 5-year mission, saved my crew and Earth countless times" Kirk.
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Old May 14 2014, 02:36 AM   #42
HIjol
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
He just saved the world. Rescued Chris Pike from Romulans. Saved another planet. Exposed a highest-level plot at Starfleet and stopped a planned war with the Klingons.

Nope, he didn't do a thing
He became Captain of the Enterprise after goading Spock to beat him up. At that point in the film, he'd done absolutely nothing to demonstrate any kind of leadership capabilities, instead only proving himself an idiot (and probably mentally ill) at every turn. After all, prior to that point, all he's done is 1. be born, 2. trash a car, 3. get in a barfight, 4. cheat on an exam, 5. beat guys up and fire a guy. I'm not sure where in there he demonstrates any kind of cunning or skill or leadership abilities (unless his ability to beat guys up and fire a gun qualify him to command the Federation's flagship). I guess all the events which prove his leadership abilities must've occurred off-screen.

And if you examine the events of the films following this event, none of his actions come from the content of his character, but instead come from the plot (and I use the term loosely). J.J. Abrams' films are those in which the characters do whatever is required from them in order to advance the plot; the story does not come from the characters, but rather the plot.
Pasi...your listing of the events re: nuKirk are spot on - and J.J. Is not my absolute fave...ahhhhhhhhhh, sorry, got blinded by a lense-flare there...I am ok - but, consider where leadership and greatness sometimes come from...they frequently spring from resistance to authority...flouting of rules...questionable choices...and I know this personally...but a true leader uses that and more to end up with the cunning and leadership skill you speak of so clearly...Yanks is correct...for now, you are watching a blockbuster popcorn movie...give nuKirk a chance...I bet he will not disappoint you...
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Old May 14 2014, 08:23 AM   #43
Yminale
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
And if you examine the events of the films following this event, none of his actions come from the content of his character, but instead come from the plot (and I use the term loosely). J.J. Abrams' films are those in which the characters do whatever is required from them in order to advance the plot; the story does not come from the characters, but rather the plot.
Good point. That's why as an origin story, ST is a complete failure. Origin stories are all about character development and plot is secondary. Look at "The Avengers", the plot is pretty simple, the complexity and therefore the entertainment comes from the individual characters coming together. Honestly I don't understand why things were so rushed. The main plot didn't need to start at the academy (outside of some bizarre desire to show Kirk as an insubordinate jerk instead of an experience officer with his first command).
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Old May 14 2014, 08:36 AM   #44
teacake
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Dennis wrote: View Post
Urban comes across to me as an impressionist and not a lot more. His routine is Pissed-Off McCoy, only one of the three or four attitudes Kelley was capable of as McCoy.

I enjoy Urban, but I enjoy impressions.
I feel this was much more prominent in STiD. Is it because he had less to do I wonder?

Quinto is my favorite reboot, but I'm not going to say he's the closest to the original. He's my favorite because I like him better (shh!).

Pine is no Shatner, but he's got his own brash charm that is a bit wide eyed with boy-ness as befits a younger Kirk. I like him fine.
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Old May 14 2014, 08:39 AM   #45
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Depends how you see Kirk, doesn't it? Some fixate on Gary Mitchell's "Stack of books with legs" line from the second pilot and work backward from there, while minimizing Kirk's actions in "Amok Time" and the movies (Carol: "Jim Kirk was many things, but he was never a boy scout!") which firmly establish him as being insubordinate. Of course that comes from somewhere, he didn't just wake up one day and decide "F--k Starfleet, I'll do whatever I want!", it's a part of who he is.
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