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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old April 27 2014, 01:28 AM   #16
Commishsleer
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Re: The cruelest villains of Star Trek

BigJake wrote: View Post
Marsden wrote: View Post
Actually, one of my favorite things about Star Trek is the lack of "villainous" villains. A lot conflict is because of cultural differences and misunderstandings rather than what things devolve to in the time of the Star Trek movies.
I agree with this.

Although there is a great example of well-realized and truly, personally sadistic villainy in Trek, but he doesn't come from TOS.
I also agree.
Even Kodos the Executioner got his say in TOS.
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Old April 27 2014, 01:43 AM   #17
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Re: The cruelest villains of Star Trek

^ And Kodos had the good sense to regret what he'd done and try to make up for it. It was Lenore who was the real villain in that ep.
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Old April 27 2014, 02:05 AM   #18
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Re: The cruelest villains of Star Trek

Lest we forget:

In "Space Seed", Khan and his merry band of followers took over the Starship Enterprise by sealing off the Bridge and attempting to asphyxiate the Bridge personnel. He then tortured Captain Kirk in the pressure chamber.

We should also keep in mind that the non-corporeal creatures from Tycho IV ("Obsession") and Zetar ("The Lights of Zetar") proved to be at least among the deadliest threats to the Federation. Spock said of the Farragut Cloud Creature "Obviously, Captain, if it is an intelligent creature, if it is the same one, if it therefore is capable of space travel, it could pose a grave threat to inhabited planets." And since the Tycho IV creature could stand up to phaser and photon torpedo fire, it would rate as extremely deadly.

If you exclude the Borg and the Dominion from the picture and focus in on just TOS, the deadliest speaking adversary Kirk ever faced was probably Nomad ("The Changeling"), which may not have been technically "alive" but appeared to have evolved into a sentient artificial lifeform of sorts. (Spock seemed to think so.) And lest we forget that Nomad wiped out all "imperfect" life forms in the entire Malurian star system.
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Old April 27 2014, 02:28 AM   #19
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Re: The cruelest villains of Star Trek

Marsden wrote: View Post
Actually, one of my favorite things about Star Trek is the lack of "villainous" villains. A lot conflict is because of cultural differences and misunderstandings rather than what things devolve to in the time of the Star Trek movies.
I partially agree.

It's true that many of Kirk's adversaries had a James Bond movie-like flair to them (Anan 7 of "A Taste of Armageddon" comes to mind) that made them stand out as simultaneously dangerous and gentlemanly.

This made them somewhat nasty, and immoral from the audience's point-of-view, but not necessarily guilty of "cruel" villainy. In a sense, Anan was standing up for the (questionable) values of the system he spent his entire life being a part of, so that confrontation was more of a cultural clash.

By contrast, Proconsul Claudius Markus ("Bread and Circuses"), who personally murdered Flight Officer William B. Harrison of the S.S. Beagle, comes across as a brutal aggressor. Yet again, Markus was also a natural product of his "Roman" culture, and simply behaved as one might expect the leader of a corrupt industrial-age empire to behave. (Putin, anyone?)

So yes, many of the adversaries Kirk encounters are just aliens trying to confront what they may see as a potential threat to their "way of life". (Krola's words in the excellent TNG "First Contact" episode from 1991)

Still, not all of TOS' "bad guys" fall into this category. Nomad may have been a machine, but its ruthless quest to purge every world it encountered made it, in a strange TREKkian sense, the "cruelest villain".
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Old April 27 2014, 03:03 AM   #20
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Re: The cruelest villains of Star Trek

Wingsley wrote: View Post
It's true that many of Kirk's adversaries had a James Bond movie-like flair to them...
You know what??....I LOVE this line. It sums up, to a very large degree, exactly how I feel. I also very much think that it is a sign of the times that this wonderful program was filmed in. I don't really see (and this is probably using standards that I envision today) that there were really 'cruel villians' as much as I do see the villians that your great line brings to mind. Garth of Izor and even Khan come immediately to mind as Bondesque type villians with many more out there. Nothing wrong with that either. Those characters, while not absurdly 'cruel' were nonetheless 'bad guys' that needed to be vanquished. Nicely said.
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Old April 27 2014, 07:18 AM   #21
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Re: The cruelest villains of Star Trek

Bixby wrote: View Post
KHAN actually killed a total of 0 (zero) enemies during his episode and the cruelest thing he did was to gas the crew into blissful unconsciousness. Not very cruel if you ask me.

The crown, IMO goes to Captain Ronald Tracey of the Exeter, for cold-bloodedly disintegrating a fellow Starfleet officer, starting a war between two peoples on a more primitive planet, and engaging in a death duel with another ship's Captain.
Khan for sure.
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Old April 27 2014, 08:20 AM   #22
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Re: The cruelest villains of Star Trek

BigJake wrote: View Post
Actually it was four phasers. Probably accounting for thousands of deaths. Tracey would be my pick for this alone
The difference between the injured security guard and the mass Yangs is the Yang were attacking the otherwise defenseless village. Tracy was the only thing stopping the Komm villagers deaths at the hands of the Yang warriors.

Even McCoy pointed this out.

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Old April 27 2014, 08:34 AM   #23
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Re: The cruelest villains of Star Trek

PCz911 wrote: View Post
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I think it was Rojan in "By Any Other Name" when he crushed the cube and then we found out it was the female red shirt that died.
Oh yes. This. For some reason I, likewise, thought it was worse that the female red shirt was the one that died and not the male.

But Rojan has got to count for that. So cold blooded.
I totally forgot about that. In the 60's at least they didn't try to bring her remains from the "dehydrated porous cuboctahedron solid" (source: memory alpha) back. Ugh. What a mess that would have been. If done today, they might well have gone for the shock effect.
The cube crushing really freaked me out as a kid. I think something about the body horror mixed with the just nastiness of the act. That and Charlie X giving that woman no face.
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Old April 27 2014, 08:40 AM   #24
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Re: The cruelest villains of Star Trek

T'Girl wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
Actually it was four phasers. Probably accounting for thousands of deaths. Tracey would be my pick for this alone
The difference between the injured security guard and the mass Yangs is the Yang were attacking the otherwise defenseless village. Tracy was the only thing stopping the Komm villagers deaths at the hands of the Yang warriors.

Even McCoy pointed this out.

So in effect Tracey was a hero attempting to save the defenceless Kohms from the Yangs. Killing those Yangs attempting to get their lands back was an act of selfless heroism by Tracey.
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Old April 27 2014, 09:59 AM   #25
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Re: The cruelest villains of Star Trek

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
So in effect Tracey was a hero attempting to save the defenceless Kohms from the Yangs.
That action, taken in isolation, was Tracy acting in a positive fashion.

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Old April 27 2014, 10:37 AM   #26
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Re: The cruelest villains of Star Trek

Fleet Captain Garth was very cruel, but he was also mentally unstable. So, it's hard to know if "cruelty" really applies, as he is acting on insane, erratic impulses and compulsions. Much of his cruelty was revealed in dialogue, however, enough was shown to rank him pretty high on this list of "Cruelest Villains of STAR TREK." Sweet, beautiful (and dangerously unbalanced) Marta getting dragged out from her bed, into the poisonous atmosphere was sadistic enough. But to stuff her jewelry with TNT and to blow her up like a New Year's Eve firecracker was too much to forgive ...
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Old April 27 2014, 12:48 PM   #27
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Re: The cruelest villains of Star Trek

Bixby wrote: View Post
KHAN actually killed a total of 0 (zero) enemies during his episode and the cruelest thing he did was to gas the crew into blissful unconsciousness. Not very cruel if you ask me.

The crown, IMO goes to Captain Ronald Tracey of the Exeter, for cold-bloodedly disintegrating a fellow Starfleet officer, starting a war between two peoples on a more primitive planet, and engaging in a death duel with another ship's Captain.
What episode?
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Old April 27 2014, 12:48 PM   #28
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Re: The cruelest villains of Star Trek

PCz911 wrote: View Post
Didn't Tracey also 'drain' a phaser killing lots of natives? That would seem to be a lot of death.
What episode?
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Old April 27 2014, 12:55 PM   #29
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Re: The cruelest villains of Star Trek

BigJake wrote: View Post
PCz911 wrote: View Post
Didn't Tracey also 'drain' a phaser killing lots of natives? That would seem to be a lot of death.
Actually it was four phasers. Probably accounting for thousands of deaths. Tracey would be my pick for this alone if the Omega Glory wasn't ultimately so ridiculous.

I agree with the earlier comment that Khan does not in fact come across as particularly cruel. Ruthless, arrogant and barbaric, certainly, but not cruel. (In his mad incarnation in TWOK is a different story, but I'm sticking within TOS parameters.)

My vote would be for Kor (thanks Marsden for providing the correct name), who was just as unflinching about mass death as Tracey was. Granted he didn't genuinely get to kill anyone in the outing we saw... but he didn't know that.
The Omega Glory I need to watch again and what other episodes?
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Old April 27 2014, 01:03 PM   #30
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Re: The cruelest villains of Star Trek

T'Girl wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
Actually it was four phasers. Probably accounting for thousands of deaths. Tracey would be my pick for this alone
The difference between the injured security guard and the mass Yangs is the Yang were attacking the otherwise defenseless village. Tracy was the only thing stopping the Komm villagers deaths at the hands of the Yang warriors.

Even McCoy pointed this out.

The Omega Glory? Need to watch it again.
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