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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old April 24 2014, 05:47 AM   #16
Dukhat
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Re: NASA chief touts deep space exploration: We can only survive if we

Yminale wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
"Littered?" Seriously? The amount of artificial objects on the Moon and Mars combined would fit in one Walmart store.
When have you last been in a Walmart store. Every store literally is a mountain of trash.
Which has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.
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Old April 24 2014, 06:24 AM   #17
gturner
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Re: NASA chief touts deep space exploration: We can only survive if we

Everything man has placed on the moon or Mars could fit into a 1300 square foot apartment.

I think this bears some similarity to big city folk who really never live in the woods freaking out about nature, somehow assuming that forests are tiny little nothings that they saw once at a rest-stop without realizing that the trees go on continuously for hundreds and hundreds of miles (with some two lane roads to cross). Having grown up in a place with endless trees, I have gone days without finding evidence that humans had ever been on this planet, and I live in the Eastern US. We have 10 states with a rural population density of 5 persons per square mile or less, and almost all of those densely packed people live in rural towns.

If you quit spending all your time at Starbucks and the Galleria and go into the wastelands, you'd see that the vast majority of the US is like Mars, or Mars with scrub, grass, or trees.
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Old April 24 2014, 06:33 AM   #18
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Re: NASA chief touts deep space exploration: We can only survive if we

Yminale wrote: View Post
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/2...lanet-species/

You first have to convince me that humans are worth saving.
No need to worry. The people who will do the heavy lifting will have a much more optimistic outlook toward humanity. They will be worth saving even if some others who benefit from the effort will not.
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Old April 24 2014, 06:56 AM   #19
J. Allen
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Re: NASA chief touts deep space exploration: We can only survive if we

Yminale wrote: View Post
urbandefault wrote: View Post
If we are to become a spacefaring species, it will be up to the private sector to make it happen. NASA, in my opinion has lost its focus and its mission is being dictated by (edited for political correctness).
I have no problem with the 1% fleeing the planet to their perfect space colonies. I do have a problem with paying for it with my taxes. Hopefully the Russians get so mad at the West that they shoot down the ISS.
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Old April 24 2014, 06:58 AM   #20
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Re: NASA chief touts deep space exploration: We can only survive if we

That whole romance with the idea humans need to go to space to survive... Sigh. Earth is, and will always be, the most human-friendly planet in our reach. Mars, and any other planet in our proximity, is DEAD. You have to live in airtight bunkers, go out in spacesuits. Even if our planet was hit by a catastrophe like a supervolcano, Earth would still be a friendlier environment than that. If you can build autark colonies on Mars and Venus, you can build autark colonies on a catastrophy Earth.
Then that talk about terraforming. We can't even purposely terraform our own planet.
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Old April 24 2014, 10:02 AM   #21
2takesfrakes
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Re: NASA chief touts deep space exploration: We can only survive if we

Dukhat wrote: View Post
"Littered?" Seriously? The amount of artificial objects on the Moon and Mars combined would fit in one Walmart store.
From Apollo 11 - 17, what was the total hours on the Moon? A day and a half, maybe? In that brief time, we managed to dump, like ... what? 11 metric tonnes of trash on the planet? Not too shabby for a couple day's work! Imagine if we'd stayed a whole year! Good thing the Moon has those plentiful, fathoms-deep craters to fill up, like natural-made landfills.

>>SNORT!!!<<
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Old April 24 2014, 10:27 AM   #22
Dukhat
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Re: NASA chief touts deep space exploration: We can only survive if we

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
"Littered?" Seriously? The amount of artificial objects on the Moon and Mars combined would fit in one Walmart store.
From Apollo 11 - 17, what was the total hours on the Moon? A day and a half, maybe? In that brief time, we managed to dump, like ... what? 11 metric tonnes of trash on the planet? Not too shabby for a couple day's work! Imagine if we'd stayed a whole year! Good thing the Moon has those plentiful, fathoms-deep craters to fill up, like natural-made landfills.

>>SNORT!!!<<
I'm totally not seeing your point here.
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Old April 24 2014, 10:35 AM   #23
2takesfrakes
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Re: NASA chief touts deep space exploration: We can only survive if we

That's OK. Let's just chant, instead:

"nerds.
Nerds!
NERDS!!
NERDS!!!"
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Old April 24 2014, 10:43 AM   #24
Dukhat
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Re: NASA chief touts deep space exploration: We can only survive if we

Ah, I get it now. You're making nonsensical comments just for the sake of making nonsensical comments. Ok then, keep calm and carry on.
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Old April 24 2014, 02:06 PM   #25
Dennis
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Re: NASA chief touts deep space exploration: We can only survive if we

JarodRussell is right (which may be a completely original English sentence).
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Old April 24 2014, 03:13 PM   #26
RAMA
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Re: NASA chief touts deep space exploration: We can only survive if we

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
That whole romance with the idea humans need to go to space to survive... Sigh. Earth is, and will always be, the most human-friendly planet in our reach. Mars, and any other planet in our proximity, is DEAD. You have to live in airtight bunkers, go out in spacesuits. Even if our planet was hit by a catastrophe like a supervolcano, Earth would still be a friendlier environment than that. If you can build autark colonies on Mars and Venus, you can build autark colonies on a catastrophy Earth.
Then that talk about terraforming. We can't even purposely terraform our own planet.
In fact, there are several good reasons to leave the Earth.

Societies needs are exponential: While humanity is likely to level off in population at around the 10-11 billion mark (see Hans Rosling's UN data analysis) the needs of an ever-increasing economic civilization will rise, and this will tax the planet. Inherent in this, is the need for both resources and space. Space has both in abundance. Eventually, man's exponential nature will level off...BUT only because of the next paradigm..man living in space. Then a new paradigm will start the cycle over again. Humanity will then again need more of each.

Survival: Spreading out the human race to survive very real, statistically probable catastrophes has been recommended by the most intelligent people on the planet.

If we are doomed by our own hand with global warming, all the more reason to leave and hope we learned the lesson.

Philosophical level. Humanity exists in it's surroundings of space, evolved on a single planet but part of a universe that shares all of it's elements and mechanisms. The idea that we will not travel in space when our technological level allows it, seems incredibly narrow and near-sighted. We have always expanded and will continue to do so. The solar system allows for us to be there.

Far future: If the Singularity happens, or anything similar to it at any time, then eventually intelligence will spread. We or someone else will convert everything to intelligent matter, thereby quantifying the universe. The ultimate in survival may well be a way to survive an end to the universe or travel to another one..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_matter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computronium
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Old April 24 2014, 03:42 PM   #27
Yminale
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Re: NASA chief touts deep space exploration: We can only survive if we

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Yminale wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
"Littered?" Seriously? The amount of artificial objects on the Moon and Mars combined would fit in one Walmart store.
When have you last been in a Walmart store. Every store literally is a mountain of trash.
Which has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.
Actually your supported instead of refuted the previous poster. Hence I mentioned the average size of Walmart.
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Old April 24 2014, 03:45 PM   #28
Yminale
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Re: NASA chief touts deep space exploration: We can only survive if we

PurpleBuddha wrote: View Post
No need to worry. The people who will do the heavy lifting will have a much more optimistic outlook toward humanity. They will be worth saving even if some others who benefit from the effort will not.
The people who will most benefit from space colonization will be the 1%. We're talking about the scum of human civilization. Yeah I feel so optimistic now.
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Old April 24 2014, 03:53 PM   #29
Yminale
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Re: NASA chief touts deep space exploration: We can only survive if we

RAMA wrote: View Post
Societies needs are exponential: While humanity is likely to level off in population at around the 10-11 billion mark (see Hans Rosling's UN data analysis)
human society doesn't necessarily need to be exponential. A policy of depopulation could allow human society to reach 500 million easily. We already seeing this in Europe, Japan and even China.

Survival: Spreading out the human race to survive very real, statistically probable catastrophes has been recommended by the most intelligent people on the planet.
The improvement to survival will be marginal until the development of interplanetary travel.

Philosophical level. Humanity exists in it's surroundings of space, evolved on a single planet but part of a universe that shares all of it's elements and mechanisms. The idea that we will not travel in space when our technological level allows it, seems incredibly narrow and near-sighted. We have always expanded and will continue to do so. The solar system allows for us to be there.
There is already a precedent for decreased exploration, the Earth's oceans. We know more about the moon than our oceans and humanity doesn't seem to have a huge huge urge to explore.


Far future: If the Singularity happens, or anything similar to it
If HAL wants to explore space, let him. His concerns have no bearing on us.
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Old April 24 2014, 04:06 PM   #30
sojourner
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Re: NASA chief touts deep space exploration: We can only survive if we

Yminale wrote: View Post

Survival: Spreading out the human race to survive very real, statistically probable catastrophes has been recommended by the most intelligent people on the planet.
The improvement to survival will be marginal until the development of interplanetary travel.
You realize that's an argument for, not against further developing space travel?
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