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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 29 2014, 01:52 PM   #121
Dennis
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Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Abrams, Lindelof, Kurtzman, Orci, they're all guilty as far as I'm concerned.
They're guilty of making the first Trek movies in a decade that weren't boring-ass wankfests.
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Old April 29 2014, 02:09 PM   #122
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Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

MakeshiftPython wrote:
And, this is just my own opinion, where Trek hits low and automatically makes it an inferior film is when it gets into that 9/11 truther parable that to me personally feels like an insult to everyone that had to go through that horrible moment.
Tell me, at what point does STID become a "9/11 truther parable"?
I think you're confusing the writer's personal beliefs with the content of the script.
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Old April 29 2014, 03:52 PM   #123
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Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
He could use the camera better than Abrams for all I know, which would be fine, but as I said earlier it's his skills as a writer that makes me question whether he's suitable or not.
But they're different disciplines. Lots of people are better at one thing than another -- for instance, I think Jonathan Frakes is a better director than he is an actor.


I don't think he is, especially when he's daring fans to write better scripts than his.
So is this really about his skills, or is it just about personal dislike for his attitude online? There's really no correlation there. Lots of great writers and directors are jerks on a personal level. I have nothing but contempt for Harlan Ellison's half-century-long temper tantrum against Star Trek for daring to treat his sacred script the same way any TV show would treat any freelance writer's script; but I think he's an amazingly good writer and I have great respect for his work. And I don't think much of Tom Cruise's personal beliefs or his behavior in public, but I'm very impressed by his dedication and professionalism as a performer. The person is one thing, the work is another. Heck, I'm admittedly not the most civil person online a lot of the time, but I hope people won't hold that against my work.


I'd only be truly intrigued if he were to direct this without ever having control over the script, or as they call them "directors for hire" like Marvel's approach.
I don't think that's a correct characterization of Marvel's approach. Yes, the directors are working for a larger machine, but that doesn't mean they're given no control at all.


Abrams, Lindelof, Kurtzman, Orci, they're all guilty as far as I'm concerned.
"Guilty?" News flash: Telling a story in a way you don't enjoy is not actually a crime.
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Old April 29 2014, 04:05 PM   #124
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Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
I'll give you my Trek variation.

Connery - TOS
Lazenby - TAS
Moore - TNG
Dalton - DS9
Brosnan - VOY
Craig - ENT
That fits ... surprisingly well when considering tone.
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Old April 29 2014, 05:05 PM   #125
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Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

Dennis wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Abrams, Lindelof, Kurtzman, Orci, they're all guilty as far as I'm concerned.
They're guilty of making the first Trek movies in a decade that weren't boring-ass wankfests.
I want Star Trek 3 to be all about staff meetings and updates of the Prime Directive, followed by a short presentation on the rapid proliferation of space herpes throughout the Alpha Quadrant.
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Old April 29 2014, 05:15 PM   #126
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Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

Dennis wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Abrams, Lindelof, Kurtzman, Orci, they're all guilty as far as I'm concerned.
They're guilty of making the first Trek movies in a decade that weren't boring-ass wankfests.
Is that an achievement given that there's a 7-year gap between Nemesis and Abramstrek 1, and a 4-year gap between Abramstrek 1 and Abramstrek 2?
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Old April 29 2014, 05:16 PM   #127
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Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

I do find it less than Awesome that having been given the Big Dumb Action treatment, Trek henceforth will be deemed a "boring-ass wankfest" any time two people stand still and talk to each other. So not signing up for any view of what makes movies good that has no time for Glengarry Glen Ross; IMO it was precisely the problem with the TNG movies that they kept trying to make them Big Dumb Action movies instead of playing to the cast's strengths.
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Old April 29 2014, 05:38 PM   #128
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Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

BigJake wrote: View Post
I do find it less than Awesome that having been given the Big Dumb Action treatment, Trek henceforth will be deemed a "boring-ass wankfest" any time two people stand still and talk to each other.
The problem was that two people standing around talking or staff meetings in general became a way for them to pad out scripts that ran short. We had plenty of it in TOS, but it was actually used to move the story along.

There was a "snappiness" that was lost the deeper we moved into Modern Trek.
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Old April 29 2014, 05:43 PM   #129
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Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

BigJake wrote: View Post
I do find it less than Awesome that having been given the Big Dumb Action treatment, Trek henceforth will be deemed a "boring-ass wankfest" any time two people stand still and talk to each other.
Then they need to get the characters to say something interesting about something that matters. Bonus points for any reasonably successful attempt at replicating the patterns of actual human speech (not to mention, you know, expressing actual human concerns). Again, based on recent Trek history the chances of that ain't looking good.
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Old April 29 2014, 05:56 PM   #130
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Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

Dennis wrote: View Post

Then they need to get the characters to say something interesting about something that matters. Bonus points for any reasonably successful attempt at replicating the patterns of actual human speech (not to mention, you know, expressing actual human concerns). Again, based on recent Trek history the chances of that ain't looking good.
+1
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Old April 29 2014, 07:12 PM   #131
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Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

Christopher wrote: View Post
I don't understand the reasoning behind assuming Orci would be a bad director. Even if you don't care for his writing or producing, directing is a different discipline, so he might be much better at it. There have been cases of first-time directors knocking it out of the park. In fact, 23 Best Director Oscar nominations have been for first-time film directors.

Of course, plenty of first-time directors are bad at it too, but that's just it: If he's never directed a movie before, we have no legitimate basis for forming an opinion about his directing skills either way. The only way we'll know whether he's a good director or not is if he actually directs something.
In my opinion, your reference to the list of Best Director Oscar nominations being first-time film directors is a bit misleading - especially in the context of this discussion. While the information is completely correct, it should also be qualified - while they were all first-time film directors, only 10 were first-time directors; the other 14 (one co- credit) had at least some directing experience. All my information is courtesy of IMDB.
While reading through this thread, I've noticed several people have mentioned a concern with a director with no experience - that's why I thought it a good idea to post this.

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Old April 29 2014, 07:24 PM   #132
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Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

^Thanks for the clarification; I was wondering about that. Still, 10 out of 23 is enough to show that it is possible for a first-time director to do a good job. Not guaranteed, of course, but possible.
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Old April 29 2014, 07:48 PM   #133
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Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Thanks for the clarification; I was wondering about that. Still, 10 out of 23 is enough to show that it is possible for a first-time director to do a good job. Not guaranteed, of course, but possible.
Sure, definitely possible. And there are untold others that were not nominated, but who had successful film debuts. I'm trying to stay away from passing judgment on Mr. Orci's potential as a director, but I can understand a studio being reluctant to entrust a film with the mega-budget of the next Star Trek film to a novice. On the other hand Mr. Orci is close to the creative process that produced the last two films in the franchise. How the two relate is beyond my skillset.

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Old April 29 2014, 07:57 PM   #134
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Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

I don't understand this 9/11 Truther parable accusation? 9/11 Truther crap was a theory/accusation of the President and his Right hand man Darth Cheney being directly responsible for ordering the 9/11 Attacks. STiD had nothing whatsoever to do with a President, it was a Rogue Admiral/Rogue Agency (Section 31) doing it on his own, without the President's knowledge. IMHO, you'd be a Hell of a lot closer with your criticism if you were to simply accuse Orci of lifting the Plot Line from DS9
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Old April 29 2014, 07:58 PM   #135
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Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

Dennis wrote: View Post
Then they need to get the characters to say something interesting about something that matters.
That right there would be the key.
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